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Author Topic: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!  (Read 140935 times)

Toaster

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1110 on: November 29, 2012, 09:26:48 am »

Why the negative Nancy ninja edit?
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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Dariush

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1111 on: November 29, 2012, 09:37:51 am »

Because I remembered Prince's Guard and what can happen even when the game doesn't have any obvious bullshit.

Also, I just thought of something interesting. Take a set of roles - Tarot, for example (this was my initial ideas), maybe a bit more than there are players. Write up roles for them, post the roles in OP. Then randomly distribute known unique roles between players. This should provide an interesting take on massclaims.

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1112 on: November 29, 2012, 09:42:14 am »

Ever heard of Smalltown?  All the roles (not alignments) are posted with their respective players at D1 start.  I've considered running one of those, but I've never seen any interest.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Tiruin

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1113 on: November 29, 2012, 09:45:43 am »

Any Mafia game out there whose Mods I've played with, I join :P

Try it Toaster.
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Dariush

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1114 on: November 29, 2012, 09:52:00 am »

Nope, never heard about it.

Leafsnail

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1115 on: November 29, 2012, 10:30:36 am »

I'd prefer to just keep it to an open setup.  I don't see much point in name distributions really.

The problem with smalltown is that it's very role based.  The town would spend a lot of its time planning actions.

I'm too lazy to think about the details, but there is no outstanding bullshit, so I'm all for it. Pre-in. If it crashes and burns, so be it.
It is fairly tried and tested, with a roughly 50/50 win record so far.
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Leafsnail

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1116 on: November 29, 2012, 11:08:52 am »

Actually, an addendum on timing:

- If a daykill happens (either a successful one on a mason or a backfire on a mafia member) the votecount will be reset and the deadline will be moved to a week after the daykill.  I don't want near-deadline kill shenanigans.
- Actions will be resolved in the order they were received, regardless of when the mod gets online.  So if a mafia member submits a daykill before a hammer vote is placed the daykill resolves first, and vice versa.
- Deadlines will be strict.  There probably won't be a modpost right on the deadline but any votes/ unvotes made after the deadline will not count.  This allows mafia members to ninja the vote so hammering is probably preferable for the town.
- A mafia member may submit an ordered list of kills in one PM if they so wish (obviously if any kill on that list fails they don't get to make the attempts afterwards).
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Dariush

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1117 on: November 29, 2012, 12:21:06 pm »

It is fairly tried and tested, with a roughly 50/50 win record so far.
Tested where? If it's RL or chat-based, it doesn't count.

Fuck I'm blind.

Also, why the odd decision to make week-long days? I didn't read the thread too thoroughly, but the entire game took ten days.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 12:25:58 pm by Dariush »
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Toaster

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1118 on: November 29, 2012, 12:23:12 pm »

Go check his reference- it's been played at MafiaScum.  There are game links at the bottom.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Leafsnail

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1119 on: November 29, 2012, 12:40:50 pm »

Yeah.  Each of those games was run with a deadline of 2 or 3 weeks, but you're not actually meant to ever reach those deadlines.
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notquitethere

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1120 on: March 21, 2013, 06:41:16 pm »

Okay, let's thrash out the playability of Elements:

Here's the set-up for Elemental Mafia, or, because it has nothing to do with organised crime, just ELEMENTS

The set up:

Elements is a mafia-like game for five players. Each player plays an element secretly assigned to them: fire, air, water, earth and wood. Each element is naturally allied with two other elements and is enemy with two other elements. A player wins when both their enemies are dead. It is mafia-like because roles are only revealed upon death. In a way, each person is both scum and town.

The allegiances are as you'd expect:

Fire is allied with Air and Earth, enemy to Water and Wood.
Air is allied with Fire and Water, enemy to Earth and Wood.
Water is allied with Air and Wood, enemy to Fire and Earth.
Wood is allied with Water and Earth, enemy to Air and Fire.
Earth is allied with Wood and Fire, enemy to Water and Air.

Each day each player must choose to Eliminate one other player and also Protect one other player (not themselves). These actions are performed publicly, no PMing is allowed. This encourages the players to spend their time seeking alliances. The day ends when ALL the players have assigned both an attacking and a defending action, and one person has more kills-minus-protects against them than any other player. You only find out what element another player is after they've been killed. Play proceeds in this manner until someone has one. It is possible for the game to end in a draw- in which case everyone loses.

Discussion of the set up:

This game is potentially shorter than regular mafia: although the days have no set length, the game ends after only two to four lynches. There is no night phase.

A simple diagram could be drawn of the alliances and oppositions, and pasted in the OP for the game.

It has a low intensity workload for the mod: there are no nights, the thread need never be locked and there are only five players to keep track of. All they need do is give out the five roles and say who was what role when they die.

In contrast to regular mafia, as players need to protect as well as kill, the game encourages alliance building. The mechanic of roles being revealed only upon death encourages alliance breaking. The tension between the two should be fun. I'm sure when Water learns that they've probably allied themselves with Fire, they'll have to make a good excuse to break off that alliance.

I thought about allowing private messaging, but that would mean less activity in the main thread. What do people think?

I don't think lurking would be a major problem as inactive players could be replaced out. Also, it should be quite fast paced as the lynch happens when everyone has made their vote.

Should votes reset upon death? It would force players to actively make the decision to keep or break their alliances.

If the game is considered successful, the format could be repeated with variations such as unique elemental roles.

Wood was decided as the fifth element, above metal or void or what have you, as it worked well for the series of oppositions and attractions. Unlike the Chinese, I don't think Earth and Wood are naturally opposed unless you think of Earth as more like Stone.
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Mephansteras

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1121 on: March 21, 2013, 06:52:28 pm »

What's to stop a D1 Mass claim? After all, no one really has any advantage in lying about who/what they are unlike scum in normal Mafia games.

Now, this won't make for a stalemate Day 1, necessarily, but it would have a drastic effect on the game since role-flips wouldn't really be the main issue. The game would then become all about negotiations and alliances as people try to co-ordinate with their allies without letting their enemies know who to target for the kill.

Once a Lynch was decided upon, you then end up with a bad problem.

Let's say Earth get's lynched. You now have:

Fire Allied with just Air, Enemy of Water and Wood
Air Allied with Fire and Water, Enemy is just Wood
Water Allied with Air and Wood, Enemy is just Fire
Wood allied with just Water, Enemy is Air and Fire.

Air and Water can just protect each other and kill off Wood and Fire respectively, leaving the two of them the uncontested winners of the game.

Fire and Wood could protect one another, but of course they each want the other to die, so that's not all that likely.

Hmm...hard to say how it'd turn out. From a negotiations standpoint it'd be interesting, especially if Fire and Wood did protect each other, since the next day's voting would be interesting indeed. Still has a nasty habit of getting into a stalemate if you only have 4 players left, though.


Maybe add in a special power for each element to help break things up? You already have Kill and Protect covered, but things like Block, Redirect, and the like could be interesting. Especially if doing so requires that the player NOT use one of the two common powers.
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notquitethere

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1122 on: March 21, 2013, 07:18:09 pm »

I think a strength of the set up is that it would still be interesting if there is a mass claim, but I also like the idea of roles. We already have a tension between protect and kill, so it might be interesting of the roles create a tension between claim and not-claim, by giving the player an incentive not to claim. As is, the threat of your enemies ganging up on you or stalemate might be enough to stop a mass claim. I guess we'd mainly see from play.

Possible roles which incentivise deception:

Earth: its Kill vote can really be a Protect
Fire: its Protect vote can really be a Kill
Air: can chose not to have its Protect count towards the vote total
Water: can choose not to have its Kill count towards the vote total
Wood: can choose for its Kill and Protect votes to be considered switched around

Extra work for the mod, but so long as activity temporarily ceased when the last person cast their vote each round, it would be okay.
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Mephansteras

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1123 on: March 21, 2013, 07:25:04 pm »

Those would help a lot, since they give the various elements a big difference in play style and trust.

Like you said, it'd depend a bit on how the people playing ended up using the abilities, but I think those powers should help a good bit in preventing a mass claim. You don't want to give up all your advantages, after all.
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notquitethere

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #1124 on: March 21, 2013, 07:32:29 pm »

What I like about the roles is that there's plausible deniability that makes using the powers to betray your allies worthwhile, as superficially the actions all look the same in-thread and if someone mysteriously dies when they look like they should be protected you can always blame the other guy.
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