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[Magua]

So, I'm playing as the goblins (this is the map from the DFM1 challenge; it's a frozen tundra wasteland).

Because of the challenge setup, I have no seeds.  I have no plants.  The goblin caravan that arrives in the winter brings meat and cheese, but no seeds or plants, so I have no hope of ever farming.  I have small spots of water created via cave-in, but they seem to contain one fish and then nothing else.  So no fishing.

This leaves hunting as my only source of food, but after three years, the map now seems to be hunted out -- there have been no animals on the map now for two seasons, whereas before new animals would be generated immediately after killing the old ones.

Human and dwarf sieges provide some horses, but not enough to feed the 87 goblins that now reside in OmenFreezes (even when cooking the tallow).  Food supplies are dwindling, and it's only a matter of time until starvation sets in. 

So, how can I make these desperate goblins butcher dead dwarf / human corpses?  Even better (manic laugh), how can I get them to cannibalize goblin corpses?

From what I've been able to gather, these entity tokens control butchering sapients (taken from the goblin's entity entry):

   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]

Now, I could try changing EAT_SAPIENT_* from PERSONAL_MATTER to ACCEPTABLE, but that seems like it would require a regen, which I don't want to do.

The other thing I've read is that I could remove CAN_LEARN from humans, dwarves, etc; but I obviously can't do this to goblins. 

Thoughts or ideas?

(Unrelatedly: Despite having MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE, my goblins will not use goblin bones for bolts.  Can I force this?)

[Funk]

try giveing them [BONECARN] to let them eat bones,
check for BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD

[Magua]

They already have BONECARN (though I have never seen them eat bones.)

BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD, according to the wiki, means it can be butchered only when it's alive, which would imply to me that I can't then butcher it's corpse.  Since this is sieging dwarves and humans, that doesn't seem like it'll work.  Is the wiki wrong, or am I misreading?

[Bricks]

I don't think fort mode supports butchering of entities, regardless of entity settings.  It's come up before, though I can't say I remember the conclusion.

[Magua]

Testing on a kobold shows that replacing [CAN_LEARN] with [CAN_CIV][CAN_SPEAK] allows me to butcher it. 

I've got a goblin with a mood who wants logs (of which I have none), so I'll soon have a goblin on which to test.

[Taritus]

I didn't think Goblins could farm even if you had seeds.  Well, unless you get a farmer as an immigrant.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

You could just lock off the more useless goblins into a starvation chamber.

[Quietust]

BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD, according to the wiki, means it can be butchered only when it's alive, which would imply to me that I can't then butcher it's corpse.  Since this is sieging dwarves and humans, that doesn't seem like it'll work.  Is the wiki wrong, or am I misreading?

For reference, the BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD token does not exist in 40d - it was removed in version 0.28.181.39a.

[Nadaka]

correct 38 was the last version where my dwarves could satiate their pallet with goblin flesh. I also had my recruits decked out in goblin leather and shooting goblin bone arrows. I used a regex to add BUTCHERABLE_STANDARD to everything in creature_standard.txt.

Be careful what you wish for...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I never was able to butcher dwarves. I don't recall exactly why, probably because the corpses never made it to a refuse pile. I might have to go back and test it out with dumping corpses into refuse and then un-forbidding them. Might get my dwarves full psycho.

[Magua]

Well, replacing [INTELLIGENT] or [CAN_LEARN] with [CAN_CIV][CAN_SPEAK] allows me to butcher all the civs.  Nothing I do allows me to be cannibalistic, so I'm just giving up on that.  It seems hardcoded that members of your own (civ?  race?) cannot be put into a refuse pile, and always go to the graveyard.

Since making the change, kobold thieves have continued to steal, and the elves have ambushed, so I know that still works.

(The elven ambush yielded 116 units of elf meat.  And gave me this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Shakma]

Could try adding the pet or common domestic tags to goblins.  There's a thread on it affecting things but not sure it was tested for cannibalism.

[Magua]

Adding [PET] to goblins gives me the option to butcher them, but at the cost of not having a labor menu anymore, so it's not really viable.  What I'd really like is to be able to butcher the corpses (of the fallen in battle, the failed moods, etc), and AFAIK, pets who die from anything *besides* being butchered will never be butchered, unlike wild animals.

[COMMON_DOMESTIC] just allows them to be bought at embark, right? 

[Shakma]

I recall them buying their own civ on embark.  Wasn't testing myself.  I guess I thought the loss of labor menu only happened to pet civ members, not all civ members but it was a confusing topic with a lot of half-information and likely wrong statements.

I know I played with the ethics stuff before and searched for answers and there was no way to get it to work with just ethics.

Could always make some slave races for pets to livestock for you.  Doesn't help much for the current game though.

[Jim Groovester]

They already have BONECARN (though I have never seen them eat bones.)

Goblins on my maps eat bones all the time. With all the sieges producing corpses left and right, there should be plenty of bones to go around. Are you turning them all into crafts and bolts? If you are, I'd recommend not doing that.

However, I've never seen goblins eat tallow. Do they eat the tallow roasts?

I didn't think Goblins could farm even if you had seeds.  Well, unless you get a farmer as an immigrant.

It's true, they can plant things if you get an immigrant with all the farming labors enabled. They wouldn't eat any of the plants, but you could turn it into booze, and mill dye for all the cloth you could be making. You'd still need seeds though, and there's no way Magua is getting any on Omenfreezes.

[Magua]

They already have BONECARN (though I have never seen them eat bones.)

Goblins on my maps eat bones all the time. With all the sieges producing corpses left and right, there should be plenty of bones to go around. Are you turning them all into crafts and bolts? If you are, I'd recommend not doing that.

Previously, I'd been turning them all into bolts.  I'll stop that for awhile and see what happens, but I *know* I had bones lying around while everyone flashed brown arrows and went to "Starving" status, so if they do eat them...well, that would be odd, then.

As for the tallow: they'll eat any prepared meal as long as it contains at least one meat item.  So the occasional cheese/cheese/tallow/tallow roast will go untouched (even while they're starving), but if at least one piece of meat sneaks in, they'll eat the whole stack.  Goes that extra little bit in extending my stockpiles.  When I learned this (the first time they started starving amongst the 100 prepared food), I switched from making biscuits to roasts.

I didn't think Goblins could farm even if you had seeds.  Well, unless you get a farmer as an immigrant.

It's not listed in their professions in the entity tag, but I do have immigrant farmers, yes.  You have to wonder at the goblin mind that hears about this fort teetering on the edge of starvation, and says, "No wood?  Well, then they'll certainly need my skills as  a wood burner!"

Ditto for Lye Maker, Potash Maker, Fisher, Fish Cleaner, etc...