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[Org]

I would like some people to join this one, as it seems that there is never(read:NONE) any interest in many of my Mafia Games, and the worst part is no one told me why(well, except for Pandar, my mistake there, should have told p.m.ed him, and Workerdrone, and I think Josh, but the latter two of the three never come here anymore).Now, for once, I would like to have a game where I dont get just the new people, for the most part as that is what I have usually had in most of my games except for maybe my comeback round for DF Mafia, which didnt last after the first round.

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Each Day, players vote for one Inn-goer to be put to the gallows, and killed.
Each Night, the Nazguls' Agents report to their masters, who then isolate and kill one player.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Free Peoples of Middle Earth:
Win: When all the Forces of Mordor are defeated.
Lose: If the Ringbearer is killed,
Or the Ringbearer is a Man or Nazgul's Agent,
Or the Forces of Mordor outnumber the Free Peoples.

Ringbearer (Special, Unique) The carrier of the One Ring, a wicked artifact of great power, and even greater treachery.
- If killed, his killer becomes the new Ringbearer.
Invoke Ring (Special, Night)
- He may use this power when he is the target of an Investigation or Attack.
- For the Night, he cannot be killed, and may choose to appear as any Race.
- The Ring betrays his Identity to the Nazguls' Agents next Day, and he loses this Power.
Entrust Ring (Night):
- If the target is a Hobbit, they become the new Ringbearer, and gain the Ringbearer Powers (but may not use them on the same Night).
- If the target is a Man or Nazguls' Agent, they become the new Ringbearer, and the Forces of Mordor win.

Frodo Baggins: (Hobbit, Unique) A Hobbit who bears the One Ring, he possesses willpower enough to resist it's corruption.
- He begins as the Ringbearer, and knows the identity of Sam.
- Willpower (Special): He has a 50% chance of using the Invoke Ring power safely, without losing the power or having his identity betrayed. He will be informed if this power is successful or not.

Samwise "Sam" Gamgee: (Hobbit, Unique) A simple, but brave Hobbit, he protects his friends at any cost.
- He knows the identity of Frodo.
- Guardian (Night/Day): Once per day, if the target is going to be killed, Sam is killed instead. He may use it during the Day to take their place at the Gallows, or during the Night to be Killed instead of them.

Peregrin "Pippin" Took: (Hobbit, Unique) A curious and adventurous Hobbit, he tends to make trouble for others.
- He knows the identity of Merry.
- Interfere (Night): Any power that the target player uses this Night fails.

Meriadoc "Merry" Brandybuck: (Hobbit, Unique) A cautious and perceptive Hobbit, he keeps a wary eye on others.
- He knows the identity of Pippin.
- Watch (Night): If his target uses an ability on another player, he receives that player's identity.

Strider: (Man, Unique) A Ranger of the North, who seeks to find and protect the Ringbearer.
- Track (Night): Determine whether the Target is a Man, a Hobbit, or a Nazgul's Agent.

Regular: (Man OR Hobbit) A regular guest at the Prancing Pony.

Drunkard "Strider": (Man) A man with a reputation for drunken delusions.
- He doesn't know his true Role, and instead believes himself to be Strider.
- Track (Night): Target appears to be a Man, a Hobbit, or a Nazgul's Agent at random.

Drunkard "Hobbit": (Hobbit) A hobbit with a reputation for drunken delusions.
- He doesn't know his true Role, and instead believes himself to be a Unique Hobbit, selected at random.
- He will believe that he has the Unique Hobbit's power, and will believe it works as normal, though secretly it will not.
- He will believe that their partner is a matching Drunkard "Hobbit", or a Nazguls' Agent.
- A Nazgul's Agent partner will be informed of their identity and supposed Role.
Spoiler: Complete Drunkard Role Rules (click to show/hide)
False Ringbearer:
- If he is killed, or Entrusts the ring to another player, his killer or target will become a False Ringbearer.
- Any Hobbit, Man, or Nazguls' Agent who becomes a False Ringbearer may use these powers.
- Drunkards who Invoke a False Ring will believe they are protected, and that they are betrayed to the Nazgul's Agents, though they will not be.
- Non-Drunkards who Invoke a False Ring will see that nothing happens, and that it is a False Ring.
- If Investigated or Attacked, no opportunity will be given to Invoke a False Ring.
- If a player is both the Ringbearer and a False Ringbearer, they must choose which of their Rings to Invoke/Entrust.

Drunkard "Frodo":
- Begins as a False Ringbearer.
- If he Invokes a False Ring, he still believes it betrays him to the Nazgul's Agents.

Drunkard "Sam":
- He believes his Guardian power works, though it truly does nothing.

Drunkard "Pippin":
- He believes his Interfere power works, though it truly does nothing.
- If he targets a Drunkard, they believe their powers are blocked.

Drunkard "Merry":
- He believes that the target of his Watch power has no target.
- If the target of his Watch power is a Drunkard, he receives their target's identity as normal.


Forces of Mordor:
Win: If the Ringbearer is killed,
Or the Ring is entrusted to a Man or Nazgul's Agent,
Or the Forces of Mordor outnumber the Free Peoples.
Lose: When all the Forces of Mordor are defeated.

Nazguls' Agent: (Nazguls' Agent) Rumors are told of Dark Riders stalking the streets of Bree at night... and of the dark-hearted townsfolk meeting with them in secret.
- All Nazguls' Agents know one another.
- Each Night, the Nazguls' Agents confer, electing one of their number to mark a player for the Nazgul to attack.
- If the Nazguls' Agent leading the attack is targeted by Pippin, their target is not attacked.

Spy (Man, Unique): This Inn-goer is actually a spy for Sarumon, seeking to contact and inform the Nazguls' Agents.
- Spy (Night): Determine the target's Race and supposed Role (Drunkards will show up as the Role they believe they are).


Neutral Parties:
Win: Whether the forces of Mordor, or the Free Peoples are victorious.
Lose: If they are killed.

Barliman Butterbur: (Man, Unique) The Innkeeper of the Prancing Pony. Although he is a good-natured sort, his foremost concern is to keep his Inn intact.
- Does not count towards either team's total for the purpose of Victory Conditions.
- Innkeeper (Automatic Day): He learns the identity, but not the role, of a Regular, Drunkard "Strider", Strider, or Spy each Day, chosen at random.
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Now, I do need some help, as if I remember right, it was very broken in something to do with Frodo claiming, and then Sam dieing early as he protected him. So, if we could have some civilized discussions and some interest, we can get this Mafia Campaign going after we solve any game-breaking rules and roles.

[Toady One]

I got a report about this thread being derailed, and I found a little derail as well as three bumps by the OP.  It has all been cleared out.  If there's a discussion that's fine, if not, silence is best.  Please don't derail threads, and please don't bump your own thread unless you have something substantive to add to the original post.

[Org]

Sorry about that, the bumping. It seems that no one likes this sorta thing. Sorry to bother you.

[dakarian]

Let's see how this setup goes.

Each Day, players vote for one Inn-goer to be put to the gallows, and killed.
Each Night, the Nazguls' Agents report to their masters, who then isolate and kill one player.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flavor for lynch in day, kill at night.  Normal.

Free Peoples of Middle Earth:
Win: When all the Forces of Mordor are defeated.
Lose: If the Ringbearer is killed,
Or the Ringbearer is a Man or Nazgul's Agent,
Or the Forces of Mordor outnumber the Free Peoples.

Ringbearer (Special, Unique) The carrier of the One Ring, a wicked artifact of great power, and even greater treachery.
- If killed, his killer becomes the new Ringbearer.
Invoke Ring (Special, Night)
- He may use this power when he is the target of an Investigation or Attack.
- For the Night, he cannot be killed, and may choose to appear as any Race.
- The Ring betrays his Identity to the Nazguls' Agents next Day, and he loses this Power.

Entrust Ring (Night):
- If the target is a Hobbit, they become the new Ringbearer, and gain the Ringbearer Powers (but may not use them on the same Night).
- If the target is a Man or Nazguls' Agent, they become the new Ringbearer, and the Forces of Mordor win.

Wait.. let's see:

So one player has a ring.  He has the option, each night, to use the ring or give it away (or not do either).

If he uses it, he can't be killed and can trick investigations, but the mafia locate him, meaning he has to dodge a lynch attempt (which is risky for mafia) and MUST give it away the next night.  If he gives it to the wrong person it's instant loss.

That's very pro-scum since it's linked to the old-style mafia win.  The town needs a good bit of power to manage both a the same time.

If it can be balanced.. it's pretty nice.

Frodo Baggins: (Hobbit, Unique) A Hobbit who bears the One Ring, he possesses willpower enough to resist it's corruption.
- He begins as the Ringbearer, and knows the identity of Sam.
- Willpower (Special): He has a 50% chance of using the Invoke Ring power safely, without losing the power or having his identity betrayed. He will be informed if this power is successful or not.

Not bad to start.  He can use the ring probably 1 or 2 times without fear AND has someone to give it to afterwards.

Samwise "Sam" Gamgee: (Hobbit, Unique) A simple, but brave Hobbit, he protects his friends at any cost.
- He knows the identity of Frodo.
- Guardian (Night/Day): Once per day, if the target is going to be killed, Sam is killed instead. He may use it during the Day to take their place at the Gallows, or during the Night to be Killed instead of them.

Hmm, bodyguard and the next ringbearer after Frodo.

Btw, I see one of the troubles now.  Frodo is basically unkillable for a good, LONG time. 

Assuming the mafia finds Frodo the first night:

N1: Sam guards Frodo, causing Sam to die.
N2: Frodo uses the ring and, chances are, keeps the effect
N3: Frodo uses the ring and, chances are, loses the effect

The thing is, most mafia games are near the end game by then.  Either the town has failed the lynches and lost or the mafia is now being hunted down.  They get a chance after that if Sam ends up giving the ring to the wrong person but, otherwise, there's not much keeping the ring from being taken by the mafia except by lynch.

And thus we get to the other issue: Massclaim.

Frodo jumps up and yells "I'm frodo!"  Sam then goes to protect him.  Worst case, you have a drunk sam and frodo fakeclaiming which gets solved by lynching one of them. 

Suddenly you have a CT.  Everyone now has to massclaim their role.  Since the roles are unique for the most part, it's extremely hard for the mafia to fakeclaim, even with drunkard possiblities.  The town now has 2-3 nights to locate the mafia before the ring loses it's power and has to be switched.

The other problem I have is in the reverse: the scum have two ways to win: via the ring instawin or the traditional mafiakill.  As such, they can just play normally and forget the whole mess. 


The key to solving it lies in this question: do you want the scum to focus on shrinking the town numbers or getting the ring?  Makes a big difference.

[Org]

Let's see how this setup goes.

Each Day, players vote for one Inn-goer to be put to the gallows, and killed.
Each Night, the Nazguls' Agents report to their masters, who then isolate and kill one player.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flavor for lynch in day, kill at night.  Normal.

Free Peoples of Middle Earth:
Win: When all the Forces of Mordor are defeated.
Lose: If the Ringbearer is killed,
Or the Ringbearer is a Man or Nazgul's Agent,
Or the Forces of Mordor outnumber the Free Peoples.

Ringbearer (Special, Unique) The carrier of the One Ring, a wicked artifact of great power, and even greater treachery.
- If killed, his killer becomes the new Ringbearer.
Invoke Ring (Special, Night)
- He may use this power when he is the target of an Investigation or Attack.
- For the Night, he cannot be killed, and may choose to appear as any Race.
- The Ring betrays his Identity to the Nazguls' Agents next Day, and he loses this Power.

Entrust Ring (Night):
- If the target is a Hobbit, they become the new Ringbearer, and gain the Ringbearer Powers (but may not use them on the same Night).
- If the target is a Man or Nazguls' Agent, they become the new Ringbearer, and the Forces of Mordor win.

Wait.. let's see:

So one player has a ring.  He has the option, each night, to use the ring or give it away (or not do either). Yes

If he uses it, he can't be killed and can trick investigations, but the mafia locate him, meaning he has to dodge a lynch attempt (which is risky for mafia) and MUST give it away the next night.  If he gives it to the wrong person it's instant loss. Basically.

That's very pro-scum since it's linked to the old-style mafia win.  The town needs a good bit of power to manage both a the same time.

If it can be balanced.. it's pretty nice.

Frodo Baggins: (Hobbit, Unique) A Hobbit who bears the One Ring, he possesses willpower enough to resist it's corruption.
- He begins as the Ringbearer, and knows the identity of Sam.
- Willpower (Special): He has a 50% chance of using the Invoke Ring power safely, without losing the power or having his identity betrayed. He will be informed if this power is successful or not.

Not bad to start.  He can use the ring probably 1 or 2 times without fear AND has someone to give it to afterwards.

Samwise "Sam" Gamgee: (Hobbit, Unique) A simple, but brave Hobbit, he protects his friends at any cost.
- He knows the identity of Frodo.
- Guardian (Night/Day): Once per day, if the target is going to be killed, Sam is killed instead. He may use it during the Day to take their place at the Gallows, or during the Night to be Killed instead of them.

Hmm, bodyguard and the next ringbearer after Frodo.

Btw, I see one of the troubles now.  Frodo is basically unkillable for a good, LONG time.   

Assuming the mafia finds Frodo the first night:

N1: Sam guards Frodo, causing Sam to die. Why does he die? Killed? If they are lucky.
N2: Frodo uses the ring and, chances are, keeps the effect
N3: Frodo uses the ring and, chances are, loses the effect

The thing is, most mafia games are near the end game by then.  Either the town has failed the lynches and lost or the mafia is now being hunted down.  They get a chance after that if Sam ends up giving the ring to the wrong person but, otherwise, there's not much keeping the ring from being taken by the mafia except by lynch.

And thus we get to the other issue: Massclaim.

Frodo jumps up and yells "I'm frodo!"  Sam then goes to protect him.  Worst case, you have a drunk sam and frodo fakeclaiming which gets solved by lynching one of them. 

Suddenly you have a CT.  Everyone now has to massclaim their role.  Since the roles are unique for the most part, it's extremely hard for the mafia to fakeclaim, even with drunkard possiblities.  The town now has 2-3 nights to locate the mafia before the ring loses it's power and has to be switched.

The other problem I have is in the reverse: the scum have two ways to win: via the ring instawin or the traditional mafiakill.  As such, they can just play normally and forget the whole mess. 


The key to solving it lies in this question: do you want the scum to focus on shrinking the town numbers or getting the ring?  Makes a big difference.

Yes, answered a little in bold.

Now, he is an Idea:

Nazgul(Forces of Mordor, Spirit)
-He knows the Nazgul's Agent(s)
-Black Breath-The Nazgul may use this, and it causes it's target to fall unconscious, effectively role-blocking them.

The problem is someone does this, which happened last game:
Frodo was like:Im frodo. Okay. Lynch me.
Sam protects, dies.
Town base forms.
Lynch Spy.
Win.

[Mr.Person]

I think you should make it like Assassin. In Assassin, the entire town is made up of the King (in this case Frodo) and Guards (in this case, the entire Fellowship of the Ring, plus some other guys thrown in). The Nazgul are trying to figure out who Frodo is and kill him. The Fellowship all know who Frodo is, but Frodo doesn't know them. The Fellowship is trying to keep the Nazgul from figuring out who Frodo is. The Nazgul have no nightkill, instead they can kill a single player when they die.

[dakarian]

The reason why it happens is because you have an event that can ONLY occur to Frodo: Sam's protection.

As such, Sam can protect protect Frodo against the lynch.  Since Sam knows Frodo:

Sam dying when someone else is lynched proves that the person IS Sam.

Since Sam knows Frodo, the person Sam protected IS Frodo.

Lastly, since Frodo has at least one night of protection, the next night means one day with a full confirmed townie.

Simply put: the game breaks once a confirmed townie exists.


Personally, I'd put one spin to correct it.

Start the ring with a random hobbit.  Storywise, you can declare that Frodo lost the ring and is now trying to get it back.

It results in the town trying to locate Frodo without letting the Nazgul find him.  If the ring can reach Frodo, then Frodo can claim and the town centers around him.  Since it's not easy for the town to get the ring to Frodo without him dying before the switch, it's not that bad for the town to be able to break the game in this fashion, especially since one bad switch ends the game.

[dakarian]

Something else: 

I'd highly consider the idea of having to use the ring at the start of the night, NOT when an investigation/kill occurs. 

Also, for added lulz: make sure some of the unique roles don't show up AND tell the scum one of the roles that don't exist.

Why?  It means the town can't trust a claim of a unique with no counterclaim.  Note that I'm assuming Sam/Frodo would show up every game but, thanks to Frodo not getting the ring to start, he can't claim and, I imagine, Sam can't claim since the town can't tell if he's drunken/fakeclaimed.

[RedWarrior0]

Interesting setup. No comment at the moment, but it could be a good game.

[Zai]

Too much possibility for a Confirmed town group to form. If the Ringbearer gives the ring to somebody and the game doesn't end, then the Ringbearer knows the person they gave it to is town. And if the person who receives the ring is immediately PMed by somebody saying they gave them the ring, then the new Ringbearer knows that that other person was a Ringbearer, and is therfore town. And then the Hobbit partners can add another confirmed townie.

Or will town PMing be disallowed, except possibly by the Hobbit pairs only to their partners?

[dakarian]

Disabled PMing might work.

Confirmed Townies are really only dangerous so long as everyone can PM them.

[Zai]

Disabled PMing might work.

Confirmed Townies are really only dangerous so long as everyone can PM them.

Is what I was getting at.

[Org]

Well...I'm not to sure actually. Now I don't think  can do this because I no longer think I want to do this. It's just...Im not to good at hosting mafia games(or so they say). But thanks for your help.

[dakarian]

Apologies for it, but don't fret too badly.  Most of mine have failed as well and, except for the Beginner's Series (which I didn't start), all of the ones that have succeeded had barely filled enough slots to start AND was plagued with inactivity. 

Meh, there's a good 6 or so games that are still in 'sign up' mode at the moment, and that's with the BYORs filling up like hotcakes.


If you come up with any new ideas for mafias, though, feel free to post them.  I'll keep an eye out and help with balancing as I can.

[Zai]

Well...I'm not to sure actually. Now I don't think  can do this because I no longer think I want to do this. It's just...Im not to good at hosting mafia games(or so they say). But thanks for your help.

It might help if you showed effort in your actual playing of Mafia games. If all you do is lurk/active-lurk and never post any real content, it's kind of a deterrent for potential players of your own games; how do they know you're not going to abandon your own games like you appear to do when you play in other people's games?