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[Rooster]

*sigh*
Jim, it's not about loosing or not for a newbie, I will learn from this game even while dead, so don't you worry about that.

[RandomNumberGenerator]

RandomNumberGenerator, before I voted for you, all your posts were fairly short. After, you post a long-winded defense of yourself. You're not worried about anything, are you? Like you were suddenly found out as scum and felt that you needed to defend yourself with large amounts of text, did you?

Ah, yes. I'm not a very active poster normally; just look at my post count and my join date. However, with the recent events I decided that I had to step up and take a more active role in this game. If I didn't, I felt that it would make it way too easy for the scum to manipulate us.

I haven't forgotten your questions from yesterday, RNG. I'll answer them here.

However, you seem certain that Diakron isn't scum, yet haven't given any reasoning as to why you think so. What is it about him that makes you not suspect him? You seem to be more experienced than the rest of us, and if I'm missing a big reason why Diakron isn't scum I want to know why. Diakron and Rooster were attacking Glyph earlier when Glyph was a popular target. After they locked on, neither of them deviated and attacked anybody else. Once Rooster came into danger of being voted off however, Diakron suddenly separated from him and went for me. This only furthers my suspicions that Diakron is scum, as he hasn't pressed GG in a while despite being determined that GG was scum earlier.

This is the first Mafia game I have ever played. If I'm doing something wrong, let me know. You say that I am only voting for people who only have votes; for the most part this is true. The reason I was voting for them is because I thought they had several scumtells, and apparently others did too, otherwise they wouldn't have had any votes in the first place. Right now Diakron seems the scummiest to me, which is why I'm voting for him. It has nothing to do with the fact that he had votes on him before.

I never said I was certain Diakron was town. GlyphGryph and Diakron fighting seemed to fit the pattern of two townies going after each other, and from my previous experiences and observations of Diakron, he seemed like he was acting in a town-like manner. I'm not sure, though, he's hard to read and I'm not the best at reading people in these games.

Now, however, I am suspicious of Diakron for the way he jumped off of GlyphGryph and instead voted for you just because I posted some reasons and a vote against you.

Well, when you first replaced RedWarrior0 you did state:

I don't think GlyphGryph or Diakron are scum. It's easy for two townies to get into fights with each other and for the whole game to revolve around them, who voted for them, who defended them, etc. This happened a lot in the first Beginner's Mafia, and it happens frequently in other games.

I was wondering why you thought that Diakron was a townie. Was there some clue I missed? For most of the game he has been acting rather scumish in my eyes. You are the most experienced player out of all of us Jim, so if there was something that made Diakron scream townie, I would like to know what it was so I can keep and eye out for it and hopefully discount false accusations on other townies.

Jim do you perhaps have trouble understanding English? my post is very straight foward.

I gave A reason to object day extension, post more if you want more to happen guys...

RNG was pushing the fight and asking why we stopped fighting...

redwarrior0 has a bad habit of knowing he cannot get on and not telling anyone, but only if he is town, i am very sure you are scum becuase of that Jim, cuase you replaced Red...

Don't threaten the new guys Jim, or i will "start ripping into you like a wolf", myself...

Pardon me, but I don't see much logic in these arguments. You're simply stating one or two things then moving on. You don't even provide quotes as a reference. How can you reject entire arguments so easily? You're also overdoing the personal attacks somewhat; it doesn't matter if someone can read English, as long as they can think. Okay, I suppose it does matter if they can read English, but that's not the point. Why don't you try attacking their behavior instead of the person themselves?

I think the scum is trying to get me Lynched by killing my opponent, it is a good tactic and most of the time wins the game for them, unless we look at this from both directions then discard the fact that the two fought at all.

the reasoning: you should analyze everything but the first time this happens always consider the fact that scum wants you to think that guy a killed guy b cause he is scum.

You could have easily killed Glyph because you realized that he wasn't going to be lynched. Glyph and you were going at it for a long time... and when he practically claimed cop you got scared he would investigate you. But it's far too obvious to the town if you straight out kill your enemy, so what if someone killed Glyph to frame you instead? That situation works out much nicer for you, doesn't it? Now we have the traditional WIFOM that you so eagerly set up...

Votes? Don't make me laugh.

Votes aren't the worst thing you can do to somebody in a mafia game.

Walls of text are. Page spanning, vicious, thorough, barely logical walls of text. Imagine having every word choice, every throwaway comment, every insignificant aspect of your behavior scrutinized with the intent of accusing you of being scum.

But the less logical the argument, the easier it is for the accused to reject the argument. Isn't careful, methodical analysis and posting the best way to expose holes in the scum's logic?Or have I been doing this wrong? Either way, I feel that Diakron's arguments have more holes than swiss cheese. Or a sponge. Or a fishing net. Or another generic hole-filled object.

Some of you quiet people need to get your asses in here and start talking.

That means you, Nirur Torir, RandomNumberGenerator, DirtyBirdy, and theevilmonk.

I just woke up ._.

[theevilmonk]

ive been umm.. busy for the past couple days. so.

as to Jims QuestionL i was planing on coming back and going over everything again that night before voting but more important things came up.

and i dont have time now to reread over everything to decide what to do, ill be back tonight probably with something slightly more substantial

[Jim Groovester]

Well, when you first replaced RedWarrior0 you did state:

I don't think GlyphGryph or Diakron are scum. It's easy for two townies to get into fights with each other and for the whole game to revolve around them, who voted for them, who defended them, etc. This happened a lot in the first Beginner's Mafia, and it happens frequently in other games.

I was wondering why you thought that Diakron was a townie. Was there some clue I missed? For most of the game he has been acting rather scumish in my eyes. You are the most experienced player out of all of us Jim, so if there was something that made Diakron scream townie, I would like to know what it was so I can keep and eye out for it and hopefully discount false accusations on other townies.

It was just my first impression upon entering the game. His actions didn't seem that scummy to me based on a quick scan and analysis. Objecting to the day extension and voting you for silly reasons and casting suspicion at me for even sillier reasons have changed my mind.

Votes? Don't make me laugh.

Votes aren't the worst thing you can do to somebody in a mafia game.

Walls of text are. Page spanning, vicious, thorough, barely logical walls of text. Imagine having every word choice, every throwaway comment, every insignificant aspect of your behavior scrutinized with the intent of accusing you of being scum.

But the less logical the argument, the easier it is for the accused to reject the argument. Isn't careful, methodical analysis and posting the best way to expose holes in the scum's logic?Or have I been doing this wrong? Either way, I feel that Diakron's arguments have more holes than swiss cheese. Or a sponge. Or a fishing net. Or another generic hole-filled object.

Sometimes you don't need logic to catch scum.

Mafia isn't necessarily a game that relies solely on logic. It's more a social game. If somebody answers a series of questions logically, but there's a panicked tone to the post, that could be potentially more telling than any gap in his logic.

Of course, if you somebody answers a series of questions calmly but you find a gap in his logic or an inconsistency in his behavior, you should follow up on that, too.

At this point, however, proceed how you feel is best.

[Diakron]

Jim do you perhaps have trouble understanding English? my post is very straight foward.

I don't know, Diakron. Perhaps you have trouble communicating English effectively?

I found each of your statements to be lacking. Which is why I asked you questions about them. I'll keep asking you questions about them until you answer them to my satisfaction.

Or I'll just vote you, Diakron, because I think you're scum and incapable of answering my questions to my satisfaction for that reason.

I think the scum is trying to get me Lynched by killing my opponent, it is a good tactic and most of the time wins the game for them, unless we look at this from both directions then discard the fact that the two fought at all.

the reasoning: you should analyze everything but the first time this happens always consider the fact that scum wants you to think that guy a killed guy b cause he is scum.

Heh, you suggesting this is WIFOM on its own.

Scum don't choose to kill based on who they think they can lynch tomorrow. They choose who to kill based on who's best at scumhunting and whoever has power roles. It's a consistent pattern throughout all the games I've read through and the strategy the scum talk about after it ends.

Nobody would suggest that you, Diakron, if you were scum, would choose to kill the person who suspected you most. Because that would lead directly back to you, and that would be a bad move as scum.

Unless everybody already thinks this, and therefore there's a measure of safety in killing somebody who directly suspects you. This way, it's a way to clear yourself of suspicion.

Or perhaps following the night kill really isn't all that useful in the first place, and you shouldn't bother following who suspected who and instead evaluate the remaining players' actions and votes instead.

Which is what I did when I decided to vote for you. Scum.

FAKEEDIT: Dammit, ninja'd by Pandarsenic on this point.

Don't threaten the new guys Jim, or i will "start ripping into you like a wolf", myself...

I'd love to see you try

ok the last thing first... Well, the problem is, you wouldn't see it.

I love how you get all hot head and emotional, it makes it so much easier to show people that i am right on both accounts.

if my reasoning was so silly, why are you getting all bent out of shape from a FoS? hell i am voting RNG not you, but you Sir, ARE scum, and RNG is your buddy, i have not doubts about it anymore.

Want proof i am town? I am the Elder in game, which is normally called a cop, THAT's why i stopped attacking GG i would know soon enough and i was hoping that by knowing he was town i could confirm him as a townie and then die at night with him still alive people would have a person to band together with. Now i know i am the next NK so i wil try my best to prove that RNG and Jim ARE the scum and hopefully win this for us.

if i live through the night then i will know for sure that RNG is scum becuase i will Unvote. Vote Jim Groovester, the scumbucket.

[Jim Groovester]

Claiming cop on Day 2? I don't buy it. You've got only one vote on you: mine. These are hardly desperate times for you, so why are you using such desperate measures?

I call bullcrap. I don't even think there's a cop in this game, and I doubt you're it if there is one. Convenient that the person you investigated just happened to die during the night, no?

There are other things to do than stay focused on you. Unvote.

Newbies. Always mistakes aggressiveness for scumminess.

Nirur Torir, are you just going to lurk your way through this game? It's Day 2. Get talking, or the vote stays.

I'd vote you too, DirtyBirdy, for lurking if I had more than one vote.

[dakarian]

Current Vote Count:
Jim Groovester[1]: Diakron
Nirur Torir[1]: Jim Groovester

Note: The attendance requirement is made more lax in weekends, but I expect everyone to be here on Monday.

Deadline: Tuesday, 9pm EST.

[Nirur Torir]

I didn't have a block of time earlier to comb through the thread looking for somebody to attack, and a "Be back later!" post isn't something that I like to do. My random theoretical questions during the RVS were me attempting to make the scum talk more, so that somebody more experienced then myself could pinpoint them better.

Now that I do have time, I'm still not quite sure who to attack. Jim and Diakron both make very good points on each other. I strongly suspect that one of them is a scum, but I can't seem to figure out which. RNG seems to generally be acting suspicious.  Halmie, Dirtybirdy, and Theevilmonk seem to mostly be lurking suspiciously. So who's the scum, when everyone looks like scum? I'm not in a good state of mind for cross-examining statements right now. I'll try again later.

[Jim Groovester]

Unvote Nirur Torir.

dirtybirdy, it's time to hear from you.

[Halmie]

Hey I'm not lurking. I just live in +8:00 GMT that's Western Australia.
I'm pretty sure i've made equal or more post than you here.

dirtybirdy is lurking more. I'm more confused than yesterday though no one seems to jump out at me, I'm voting for dirtybirdy if he is not back by the end of my day. (Probably about a full 12 hours.)

[RandomNumberGenerator]

ok the last thing first... Well, the problem is, you wouldn't see it.

I love how you get all hot head and emotional, it makes it so much easier to show people that i am right on both accounts.

So you defend yourself by saying you don't need to defend yourself? Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying? And exactly what are the two accounts you are talking about? As far as I see you've pointed nothing out.

Want proof i am town? I am the Elder in game, which is normally called a cop, THAT's why i stopped attacking GG i would know soon enough and i was hoping that by knowing he was town i could confirm him as a townie and then die at night with him still alive people would have a person to band together with. Now i know i am the next NK so i wil try my best to prove that RNG and Jim ARE the scum and hopefully win this for us.

So the person you investigated was GG? I find that very suspicious, considering I was attacking you more. Wouldn't you want to know my role instead? I have to agree with Jim here - it's very convenient that the person you investigated died.

Now that I do have time, I'm still not quite sure who to attack. Jim and Diakron both make very good points on each other. I strongly suspect that one of them is a scum, but I can't seem to figure out which.

I'm telling you man, it's Diakron.

RNG seems to generally be acting suspicious. 

This I find interesting though. Any particular reason?

Halmie, Dirtybirdy, and Theevilmonk seem to mostly be lurking suspiciously. So who's the scum, when everyone looks like scum? I'm not in a good state of mind for cross-examining statements right now. I'll try again later.

Well, remember that it's the weekend. This is my first time checking the thread all day. Halmie and theevilmonk have been posting a decent amount... nothing good, but they're not high on my suspicions list. Dirtybirdy is up there though, because he only posts when he gets called out...

[Nirur Torir]

Halmie: Looking back, I see that you were posting plenty, but you're posts seem unmemorable to me. Could be a scumtell of somebody trying to be low-key. Call it a gut feeling of you trying to neither active lurk nor draw attention to yourself.

RNG: Some of your posts generally leave me feeling like you're tense about something. Just now you jumped at a vague suspicion when I accused everyone. Hiding something?

Are the forums acting sluggish for anyone else? It kept timing out while I was trying to post this.

[dirtybirdy]

Yada yada yada, go ahead and set us townies up for failure by wasting yet another vote on something stupid like lurking.  I havent been lurking.  RL Ive been on the road for 120 miles today.  Ingame: I've tried 4 differnt times to come online just to have the server time out on me during my breaks. 

Back to what really is important:
game wise.... I'm not sure who looks suspect at this time. I'm tired & sleepy and I'll look at it tomorrow after sleeping.

g'nite!

PS. I'm always a lady.

[dirtybirdy]

I am AGAINST a day extension

Hmmm this to me seems like a scum tell to want to hurry the day.

i object for 1 reason, if i have to do 5+ game days that last over a week each I will start killing people.

Was that a freudian slip about "killing"?  That seems very scummish too.

don't blame me for a if you are not going to blame EVERYONE who voted for him.

Fix'd:don't blame me for Rooster's death if you are not going to blame EVERYONE who voted for him.

*Sigh* at this point you seem to be displaying a little guilt or hyper sensitivity for having lynched a townie. and being called out for it.

Want proof i am town? I am the Elder in game, which is normally called a cop, THAT's why i stopped attacking GG

Shesh, now I'm almost certian Diakron must be scum, only a mafia would claim cop with little pressure being applied.  Besides, who'd claim cop not knowing if there is a doctor in the game?

What is your defense?

[Diakron]

my defense is that you guys fail for a scum ploy and i am trying to provide everything that i can to show you that, but if you want to go with the joint attack of Jim and RNG against me then go ahead, i have better things to do then try to talk sense into people that won't listen.