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[CobaltKobold]

I'm kinda wondering what happened to this, Toony.

I've been looking at this different for a bit.
Let's just go along with the ifs for a bit.

IF Neruz is town.  That would make Apostolic, dakarian, and Meph scum easily.

IF Neruz is scum.  That would mean nothing.  I don't know who the other scum would be.  This is why I am very converned about this.  I'm think Neruz might just be a Diakron....

I'm going to Unvote and vote dakarian.

You keep insisting you hate buddying, but you're doing that to me!

That was, I think, about the time that I gave him the "If you get everyone to admit that you are Chuck Norris, you will keep that role" aspect in KWN:DE.  He went hogwild with it in that game and I think it pushed him forward here too.

So no, I don't think he was serious.

So if THAT is the 'lie' then I call it "reaching for any reason to kill someone."  Meph, Cobalt, do you honestly believe that SirBayer, as scum, would do something like that?  Remember, we're not after stuff we don't like, we're after SCUM.

@Cobalt

Yes, I am the one who holds 3rd vote in high regard.  When I don't have another strong target I vote for them.  Many times, the 3rd vote ends up being scum.

So, where's your vote on me? 

You're asking me to crossvote you? You continue to sound different to town-dakarian...

Then you were nominated for best noob, since your performance was so good.

I missed that, somehow. *seek* Ah, alexhans and zai, both in spoilers.

PPE:

Warning: posting while caffeinated.

Warning: caffeine is scum? Or: Please accept this post if not scummy, please ignore if scummy?

[ToonyMan]

Meph and dakarian are on my scum list, no?

Apostolic is dead so yeah.

[dakarian]

@cobalt

Fail attack on Toonyman.  He's STILL on me and considers me a target.  He hasn't stopped or dropped his vote?

Are you looking to get him to attack me more so I can leave you alone?



Btw, yes I'm asking you to cross vote me, or fling a FOS.  You seem content to attack me as if I'm scum.  "I'm different from town-dakarian?"  Please explain how I'm supposed to act?

[Vector]

PPE:

Warning: posting while caffeinated.

Warning: caffeine is scum? Or: Please accept this post if not scummy, please ignore if scummy?

Nope.  "If I sound absolutely batshit insane, please let me know so I can translate for myself when I stop being so wired."

If scummy, attack me.  If not scummy, don't attack me.  If incomprehensible, let me know because my processors are currently shot.  I'll try again later once the wiring-juice is out of my system.



Question @Dakarian: why is failure to formalize opinionata in terms of an FoS scummy?  I understand why lack of a vote might be scummy, but I can't say I fully understand the need for FoS.  They're free (i.e. don't do anything, as far as I know) and implied in attacks, are they not?

[dakarian]

One use of FoS is to imply "You're scum as well, but I'm staying on my target." 

What I call him out is his use of softballing.  He's 'attacking' but doesn't seem quite willing to declare me as scum for it.  So far he's hit me with my own 3rd vote and Meta, both of which are very strong attacks. 

Now he's done it to you and Toony.  Soft "you are acting scummy" statements but little more content than that.  You and I are attacking him.  Toony isn't, but his comment was a "why aren't you trying harder to kill Dakarian?"  His words are loaded but he's attacking from a very safe place. 

It smells of "I have dirt on you, so back off!" 

[Mr.Person]

One use of FoS is to imply "You're scum as well, but I'm staying on my target." 

What I call him out is his use of softballing.  He's 'attacking' but doesn't seem quite willing to declare me as scum for it.  So far he's hit me with my own 3rd vote and Meta, both of which are very strong attacks. 

Now he's done it to you and Toony.  Soft "you are acting scummy" statements but little more content than that.  You and I are attacking him.  Toony isn't, but his comment was a "why aren't you trying harder to kill Dakarian?"  His words are loaded but he's attacking from a very safe place. 

It smells of "I have dirt on you, so back off!" 

Fuuuuuuuck it. You might be scum, but CK's behavior is FAR worse. Unvote Dakarian and vote CobaltKobold. Soft attacks like the ones CK make are used exclusively by scum who are trying not to get blamed for getting a lynch going on what turns out to be a townie or are trying to stay under the radar. Townies have no reason to do either of those things, so I just can't see CK as town.

If you're going to attack someone, declare what you think their alignment is and vote accordingly. Anything else, like what CK did, is scummy.

[webadict]

1. I know I wasn't attacked last night because Panda told me in his PM that you were roleblocked tomorrow night from radiation sickness. He told me this specifically. You were not attacked in a way that I could defend from.

2. Yes, it's strange, but I assumed scum was going to try to knock you off. (If I attempt to protect you again tonight and you're not attacked, you'll die. So I don't think I'm going to do that.)

3. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Org: There's no point. He's accidentally roleblocked already. You should have known that...

There we go, just a bit later he goes into more detail.

Did people really start voting him for his role? ... SAY WHAT?!?

dakarian is scummy. We know it, he knows it, we all know it. Why are we arguing over such stupid obviousness?

Funny how Mr.Person uses the arguments of the person he's voting for to switch to the person they're voting for despite hating the scum that gave him the reasons.

[Vector]

Did people really start voting him for his role? ... SAY WHAT?!?

I think people largely started voting him for spewing WIFOM and for some incomprehensible mess about Chuck Norris.  It had nothing to do with what his actual role was, just a bunch of crapola about his lying about/joking about his role in a particularly odd way.


Currently, a couple of people are on him because he's a doctor who's still alive D3 (i.e. CobaltKobold and Dakarian).

[CobaltKobold]

Toonyman, that answers my question. Dakarian, I was mainly asking what had occurred with it, not casting suspicion, yet.

And, yes, I would believe SirBayer as scum would do it. I've seen him as scum on IRC, he behaves in the same manner as scum as town.

...hmm, the "chuck norris e'erywhere" theory is actually backed up by the mod.

No, he does this shit when we talk on AIM too. I'm so sick of Chuck Norris.

(alreadyvoting) SirBayer get out here and talk to us. Tell us why you told us to acknowledge you as Chuck Norris when you earlier claimed to be a Nuclear Rocket Surgeon.

Dakarian: Your arguments are weak, and frequently less-than-fully-reasoned. They are normally strong, and full of vim and vigor and REASONS. I'd need to scan to gather evidence...after chapter 7.
My vote is on SirBayer because he is acting scummy RIGHT NOW, and I don't wnt to take it from him until he's been shaken and some data fall out. My vote would be on webadict because I had a fair amount of evidence on him, but people seem to be giving him a pass(!), so I'll look around for some more scum in the meantime. Dakarian is the worst on this list, but he's third.

One use of FoS is to imply "You're scum as well, but I'm staying on my target."

This reads to me as "my use of FoS".

What I call him out is his use of softballing.  He's 'attacking' but doesn't seem quite willing to declare me as scum for it.  So far he's hit me with my own 3rd vote and Meta, both of which are very strong attacks.

...third vote is strong TO YOU. I still don't think terribly much of it. Meta is meta- behavior is usually more important. That weak, unsupported arguments are uncharacteristic of you is a lot less important (but supportive of) that you are scum for making weak, unsupported arguments. (this is, in essence, the meta+claim that I have against webadict)

PPE:  Mr. Person follows along sheepwise. Webadict attacks for it...and vector puts words in my mouth.

[webadict]

Did people really start voting him for his role? ... SAY WHAT?!?

I think people largely started voting him for spewing WIFOM and for some incomprehensible mess about Chuck Norris.  It had nothing to do with what his actual role was, just a bunch of crapola about his lying about/joking about his role in a particularly odd way.


Currently, a couple of people are on him because he's a doctor who's still alive D3 (i.e. CobaltKobold and Dakarian).

Yeah well they can go through me then.

Starting with CK:

Toonyman, that answers my question. Dakarian, I was mainly asking what had occurred with it, not casting suspicion, yet.

And, yes, I would believe SirBayer as scum would do it. I've seen him as scum on IRC, he behaves in the same manner as scum as town.

...hmm, the "chuck norris e'erywhere" theory is actually backed up by the mod.

No, he does this shit when we talk on AIM too. I'm so sick of Chuck Norris.

(alreadyvoting) SirBayer get out here and talk to us. Tell us why you told us to acknowledge you as Chuck Norris when you earlier claimed to be a Nuclear Rocket Surgeon.

Dakarian: Your arguments are weak, and frequently less-than-fully-reasoned. They are normally strong, and full of vim and vigor and REASONS. I'd need to scan to gather evidence...after chapter 7.
My vote is on SirBayer because he is acting scummy RIGHT NOW, and I don't wnt to take it from him until he's been shaken and some data fall out. My vote would be on webadict because I had a fair amount of evidence on him, but people seem to be giving him a pass(!), so I'll look around for some more scum in the meantime. Dakarian is the worst on this list, but he's third.

One use of FoS is to imply "You're scum as well, but I'm staying on my target."

This reads to me as "my use of FoS".

What I call him out is his use of softballing.  He's 'attacking' but doesn't seem quite willing to declare me as scum for it.  So far he's hit me with my own 3rd vote and Meta, both of which are very strong attacks.

...third vote is strong TO YOU. I still don't think terribly much of it. Meta is meta- behavior is usually more important. That weak, unsupported arguments are uncharacteristic of you is a lot less important (but supportive of) that you are scum for making weak, unsupported arguments. (this is, in essence, the meta+claim that I have against webadict)

PPE:  Mr. Person follows along sheepwise. Webadict attacks for it...and vector puts words in my mouth.

You vote for me if you're going to vote for SirBayer. His role does as claimed, you stupid lying scumbag. Why not take this opportunity to spread WIFOM, eh? Nah, screw you.

You're going after the weakest target. REALLY? Is that your best try at trying to fakehunt? At least TRY to go for someone legitimate. This, as it stands, makes you scummy AND a terrible liar.

Seriously, try a little bit harder. You have the worst evidence for voting.

[Vector]

PPE:  Mr. Person follows along sheepwise. Webadict attacks for it...and vector puts words in my mouth.

GRARGH!!

Did people really start voting him for his role? ... SAY WHAT?!?

I think people largely started voting him for spewing WIFOM and for some incomprehensible mess about Chuck Norris.  It had nothing to do with what his actual role was, just a bunch of crapola about his lying about/joking about his role in a particularly odd way.


Currently, a couple of people are on him because he's a doctor who's still alive D3 (i.e. CobaltKobold and Dakarian).

Sirbayer's gotten a few posts which were chock-full of scum and I don't think there're two jesters. IF you want frosting on that cake, he's claimed doc and survived a few nights with that claim (take with salt) and -he has no leads, and I hear confusion is a scumtell.

All right.

Things I said:

(1) People are largely voting him (I think) for WIFOM + confusing behavior.  I used to belong to this group of people.  (Set A)

(2) Some people are also voting him because he claimed doctor and is not dead.  I never belonged to this group of people.  (Set B)

Set B contains set A.  It is a proper inclusion, since I am/was not voting him for reason 2.  You are in set B.  The quote above tells me so.


Better?

[webadict]

Can we lynch one of dakarian or CobaltKobold right now?

[Eduren]

Huge apologies for not posting in this. I am easily intimidated and I really didn't want to put another replacement on the mod's shoulders.

That said, time to start reading again.

[dakarian]

Dakarian: Your arguments are weak, and frequently less-than-fully-reasoned. They are normally strong, and full of vim and vigor and REASONS. I'd need to scan to gather evidence...after chapter 7.

Last time I heard a statement like this was with Mr.Person and what came out after that scan was a mass of misreadings and flat out wrongness.

My vote is on SirBayer because he is acting scummy RIGHT NOW, and I don't wnt to take it from him until he's been shaken and some data fall out. My vote would be on webadict because I had a fair amount of evidence on him, but people seem to be giving him a pass(!), so I'll look around for some more scum in the meantime. Dakarian is the worst on this list, but he's third.

I'm the worst but I'm third?  How does that work?

So the only thing you're after him for right now is the Chuck Norris thing (since that's the only thing you asked him about)?  Wouldn't that work better if you FoS HIM and, say, vote me or Webadict?

You say you have evidence on Webadict.. mind bringing that out?

You say I'm worst... I imagine that'll come from that scan you're preparing. 

Which again makes me wonder, if me and web are fully and truly scummy to you but SirBayer is just getting pressured, why are you letting two people who truly ARE scum to you pass just to go after a Maybe?  Furthermore, why have you not attacked me very much until AFTER I voted for you?  If I looked so badly and web seemed so unlynchable wouldn't I bet the next direct target? 

One use of FoS is to imply "You're scum as well, but I'm staying on my target."

This reads to me as "my use of FoS".

And the above doesn't sound so well when you just FoSed me, saying that you would vote for me but already have others you'd rather target.

...third vote is strong TO YOU. I still don't think terribly much of it. Meta is meta- behavior is usually more important. That weak, unsupported arguments are uncharacteristic of you is a lot less important (but supportive of) that you are scum for making weak, unsupported arguments. (this is, in essence, the meta+claim that I have against webadict)

So if you don't believe in the 3rd vote, why, OH WHY did you use that as your opening attack on me?  Why did it seem so important that you had to mention that, yes, I hit 3rd vote twice when you don't even see it as a scumtell?  Why did I have to strike back at you in order to get the "rest" of your argument? 


And why does it seem like you'd so much rather attack me with everything you can pull up rather than actually answer to the charge I placed against you? 

Allow me to elaborate. I use short-term memory for mafia games I'm in- it lets me switch more easily between them. _{It should also have quicker access, but I don't think the analogy between cache misses and longer-term memories is so good}

Reading old games is different. I can collect someone's behaviour in short-term and then bin it into "town tell" or "scum tell" when they flip, because the game is done, it can be read quickly.

Nobody's asking.

It feels.. 'meh' to me honestly: a mess in an attempt to explain away an inconsistency.  Besides, the argument is over mafia theory, which SHOULD hold over from one game to the next.  How can you forget your own mafia theory?  Why would you rather remember player meta over your theories on what is and isn't scummy play?

[Mr.Person]

PPE:  Mr. Person follows along sheepwise. Webadict attacks for it...and vector puts words in my mouth.

Actually, I was already thinking you were scum when I read your post. The fact Dakarian beat me to the punch means nothing.

Actually, I almost didn't vote you because of my thoughts on Dakarian and the fact he voted you too. However, that's WIFOM, and I vowed to never, ever, let myself be WIFOM'd. I've decided to take you both separately. Dakarian seems scummy, but you, CK, scream scummy so loud I can hear you from the moon. The fact that you haven't even tried to defend yourself makes it all worse. Hell, all you've done is weakly say I'm scummy, which is the exact reason I'm voting you.