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[Neruz]

*Snaps Fingers*

I knew Toony's posts sounded familiar; he's acting exactly like MrPerson did in the 2nd Wizard Duel; his posts are erratic and illogical, he's focusing all his attention and me and seems unconcerned that i am focusing on him, and when i point out the flaws in his logic he simply ignores my posts entirely and continues to declare that i must be scum because he says so.


To metagame a little, i suspect Toony is indeed scum, and is deliberately trying to draw attention to himself and away from his buddies. I can't think of any other logical reason why he would act like this.

[SirBayer]

I don't think Neruz really can do anything at this point do defend himself but to rolereveal on death. It's a shame, but we'll find out. If he's town, that certainly changes things.

[dakarian]

Neruz... you just described Toony as aggressive and single minded.  That's actually his old Town tell at work.  Even ignoring meta, aggressive and aiming to lynch scum is exactly how a town SHOULD act in the first place.

Meanwhile, this whole stunt started because a bandwagon had started on you which turned into a direct attack on Toony. 


I mean jeesh, you're using someone ELSE'S meta tells to read Toonyman, who we can't even use NORMAL tells on? 

I correct myself again.. you NOW have 4 votes, Neurz

, now that I can consider your insanity earlier as a null tell and use the desperate hunt for ANYTHING to throw at Toonyman as an act of desperation.

[Neruz]

Neruz... you just described Toony as aggressive and single minded.  That's actually his old Town tell at work.  Even ignoring meta, aggressive and aiming to lynch scum is exactly how a town SHOULD act in the first place.

Meanwhile, this whole stunt started because a bandwagon had started on you which turned into a direct attack on Toony. 


I mean jeesh, you're using someone ELSE'S meta tells to read Toonyman, who we can't even use NORMAL tells on? 

I correct myself again.. you NOW have 4 votes, Neurz

, now that I can consider your insanity earlier as a null tell and use the desperate hunt for ANYTHING to throw at Toonyman as an act of desperation.

I'm not using his aggressiveness towards me as a reason to vote for him, i am using his aggressiveness towards me without explaining or providing any solid reasoning, nor choosing to counteract any of my claims (instead ignoring them entirely), as a reason to vote for him.

I've seen similar action in the XylBot mafia games; a mafioso latches onto a townie and goes on the offensive, ignoring the townie's counter-claims and providing no actual reasons for his assault apart from declaring that the townie is ovbiously scum. It happens time and time again, and oddly enough it always seems to catch at least one or two people by surprise, and then the person is lynched, turns out to be town and they sit around going "Wow, i was so sure he was scum too.", not realising that the person leading the charge never provided anything to work with; instead he let others build his arguments for him.

Remember: Mafia know that aggressively persuing someone is a town-tell. Look out for the aggressive ones who fail to explain the reason for their aggression; because they don't have one.


Exactly what you and cheeetar are doing now, in fact; Toony has provided no arguments of his own, but that's fine, you're filling in the gaps for him.



I'm not desperately hunting for anything to throw at Toony, i have what i want to throw at Toony, i've explained why i am throwing this at Toony, and as usual he has ignored my posts entirely and just declared that i am scum.


If you really want to lynch me, go ahead and lynch me, but make sure you take down Toony when i flip town, because he's using the old magicians trick of providing just enough details to the lie that you automatically fill in the blanks, so that when it invariably turns pear shaped he can, with absolute honesty, say that he didn't provide all those reasons for why Neruz was scum.

You did.

[Apostolic Nihilist]

Dakarian:
I want either Mephansteras or Neruz lynched. People were suspicious of Meph D1, and that subsided come D2. I don't know why, maybe because he stopped acting scummy?

Neruz' recent posts just implicate him more, in my mind. I don't even know how to attack him. Neruz is more experienced than to pull some sort of ridiculous gambit as town to find scum (I'm acting scummy so that I'll know the first person who jumps on me is scum!). That's the sort of thing novices do.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Neruz was a jester at this point. Whenever I see obvscum I always think that.
Mephansteras' scumminess is a bit more difficult to locate (aside from the mountain of people saying that 'asking questions' is his scumtell -- something which seems to have a sizable amount of evidence to support it). A good deal of my suspicion toward Mephansteras is due to Leafsnail's post, too.
I didn't find his buddying with you suspicious because... well, it seemed like buddying. Scum have no reason to buddy with other scum.
His attack on Meph was light, more so than his attack on Rashilul. Rashilul could very well be scum, for all I know. Of the people Leafsnail mentioned in his 'suspicions', I know at least 1 are scum; probably 2. I know because if I were scum, that's how I'd lay out my suspicions. If I had a list which omitted all my scumbuddies, I'd think that was suspicious in itself and include more of them.
Similarly, I wouldn't create a list with just scumbuddies, as that would seem too obvious. I'd mix in a few.

Also, SirBayer's latest post reeks of scumminess. I can't quite tell why, it just doesn't seem... right?
Just a feeling, so I'm going to ignore it. I just don't like it when people suggest that others "don't have any way out".

[Mr.Person]

Dak, I'm voting Eduren because he's lurking his ass off. You might want to fix that.

[Neruz]

Neruz' recent posts just implicate him more, in my mind. I don't even know how to attack him. Neruz is more experienced than to pull some sort of ridiculous gambit as town to find scum (I'm acting scummy so that I'll know the first person who jumps on me is scum!). That's the sort of thing novices do.

You clearly havn't been playing with me enough. I usually pull this trick every other game, although admittedly i usually don't keep it running as long as i did this time.

Did you forget my "Neruz is clearly lurking far too much to be scum" ploys?

[Neruz]

Woops, i just realised you're Apostolic, not dak, you havn't been playing with me on IRC for the last couple of days. Of course you wouldn't be aware of that.

My bad.

[Apostolic Nihilist]

Well, they tend to backfire...
See: BM3.
tehstefan pulled something like this which was one of the main reasons I kept my vote on him instead of webadict.
Town lost that game, interestingly enough.

[CobaltKobold]

*Snaps Fingers*

I knew Toony's posts sounded familiar; (snip)and when i point out the flaws in his logic he simply ignores my posts entirely and continues to declare that i must be scum because he says so.

What am I, chopped liver? He is clearly doing this to my arguments as well...

I don't think Neruz really can do anything at this point do defend himself but to rolereveal on death. It's a shame, but we'll find out. If he's town, that certainly changes things.

You wonder why it's scummy? It looks to me like "Neruz is scum. Let him die without another word."

[Mephansteras]

(For reference, trying to Meta-game me is a bad idea. I'm specifically using some of my previous scum tells this game when I'm town to help me remove them. I'm actively working to improve myself as a player. In any case asking questions is a perfectly valid tactic and I don't want to have everyone go "he's scum" everyone time I ask someone a question)

[Neruz]

I'm only metagaming a little; the gigantic holes in Toony's arguements and the complete lack of any content is more than sufficient for me.


Sorry Cobalt, i've tunnelvisioned a bit on Toony, if he's been disregarding your posts as well that only enhances my point.

[dakarian]

Sigh

Do you know just how much WIFOM you are throwing at the town?

"Neruz is acting horibbly scummy, but that's just him acting scummy to catch scum."

"Neruz typically does crazy things like this but that's what he wants us to think."

Perhaps fighting Meta vs meta isn't the right path, neruz, if you want to convince me of anything.  I don't know your meta, but I've seen Toony's Meta, and this is how he typically acts. 

Besides, do you really think I'm listening to him in order to go after you?  Even if I had the means of 100% confirming Toony it doesn't mean his argument is proof of your scumminess.  I'm voting for you based on MY viewing of YOUR posts.  You look horrible to me, simply put.

Btw, 'I've tunnelvisioned a bit on Toony'.  Couldn't you be tunnelvisioning A LOT on Toony? 


@Mr.Person

Where's the post with your vote?  I missed it.

[Neruz]

Oh i know i'm tunnelvisioning alot on Toony right now; but that's because i'm fairly sure i'm right that he's scum. Once he's dead i'll pull out and have a look around to see who else slipped up during this whole thing, but i don't want to take my attention away from Toony, as i don't want to give him any openings to weasel out of this.

You claim Toony always acts like this; i claim bullshit. In the other Mafia threads i've read Toony is indeed chaotic and random, but most of his posts contain some substance, there's something there.

At the moment, there is nothing there, at all. His posts amount to "You are scum, now die." There is no substance to his claims, no reasoning, nothing at all. He's just declaring that i am scum.

Besides, do you really think I'm listening to him in order to go after you?  Even if I had the means of 100% confirming Toony it doesn't mean his argument is proof of your scumminess.  I'm voting for you based on MY viewing of YOUR posts.  You look horrible to me, simply put.

I don't actually recall making any such comment, interesting for you to suddenly bring that out into the open with no provokation however.

If you're talking about my rant where i went on about what i think Toony is trying to pull, then i wasn't actually speaking to you specifically, i was speaking to everyone in general. Additionally, the fact that YOU voted for me based on YOUR own reasons is the entire goddamn point. So long as Toony doesn't actually make any solid claim against me, when i flip town you have no ammo against him.

[Cheeetar]

Dakarian:
I want either Mephansteras or Neruz lynched. People were suspicious of Meph D1, and that subsided come D2. I don't know why, maybe because he stopped acting scummy?

I'm not Dakarian, but I'll answer this. It's because Meph simply stopped posting. People got scared that they were on a scum directed bandwagon, and unvoted.