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[Eduren]

I am going to grudgingly unvote cheeetar because he has appeared.

Webadict: The super RAEG isn't helping your case. I fact, that seems to be the same stunt you pulled in Parallel. So if you are really are town, come down off of your high horse and actually work with us.

Org: Bandwagoning the bandwagoner?

Zai: You are being way too passive and have admitted to letting the rest of the town do the work.

PPE: Web, I'm now confused. Are you voting shadowdump because you don't believe his restriction, or because he is scum?

I'm voting him because he's purposely not helping the town, because he doesn't have a posting restriction, which makes him scum.

And you're basically saying that there is, in fact, no one scummier than me, so you will simply jump on the bandwagon without further finding scum, as opposed to the person you're voting for who is, in fact, pointing out the very things you just said were scummy.

How odd, don't you think? You're saying that the scumhunter is in fact scum. Why's that?

And I told you: I don't do Meta.

You don't do meta? Then what is this?

This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.

I can agree that he is not being helpful, but that does not automatically mean that he is lying about his restriction.

[Rashilul]

Reasonable inquiry.

Just for public knowledge, whoever hammers is likely to be looked upon disdainfully tomorrow if/when Web turns up town.

I know, that's why it's such a grave decision.

Pre-post edit: Oh god, scum spam.

[webadict]

COMPLETE THE BANDWAGON!!!1!

Just for public knowledge, whoever hammers is likely to be looked upon disdainfully tomorrow if/when Web turns up town.

I might as well roleclaim before someone kills me, right?

I am going to grudgingly unvote cheeetar because he has appeared.

Webadict: The super RAEG isn't helping your case. I fact, that seems to be the same stunt you pulled in Parallel. So if you are really are town, come down off of your high horse and actually work with us.

Org: Bandwagoning the bandwagoner?

Zai: You are being way too passive and have admitted to letting the rest of the town do the work.

PPE: Web, I'm now confused. Are you voting shadowdump because you don't believe his restriction, or because he is scum?

I'm voting him because he's purposely not helping the town, because he doesn't have a posting restriction, which makes him scum.

And you're basically saying that there is, in fact, no one scummier than me, so you will simply jump on the bandwagon without further finding scum, as opposed to the person you're voting for who is, in fact, pointing out the very things you just said were scummy.

How odd, don't you think? You're saying that the scumhunter is in fact scum. Why's that?

And I told you: I don't do Meta.

You don't do meta? Then what is this?

This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.

I can agree that he is not being helpful, but that does not automatically mean that he is lying about his restriction.

He is lying. I know he is.

[SHAD0Wdump]

Finally you baby.

[webadict]

Finally you baby.

And yet you refuse to unvote.

So, instead of going back, looking, and making sure, you have the ability to prattle on with whatever whimsical accusation you want, and you know what?

Nobody will ever notice, because you're active lurking.

Somehow, with fake evidence and what-not, everyone will automatically assume I'm scum, which is completely absurd, because I'd never want this much attention as scum, and I'm likely to get hit by any respectable inspection role.

So, maybe people need to think with logic, instead of this massive bandwagon everyone's got going based on, what do you know, fake accusations and false meta that is actually disproven in Paranormal 11.

Nice try.

[Mr.Person]

Zai, you've only proven yourself scum with that post.

So, Web, your argument on Dakarian is that he talked to you instead of the crowd? That's stupid as hell, of COURSE he's going to talk to you, YOU ASKED HIM THE QUESTIONS! Nobody else asked him anything, why would he talk to them? I think I see why you didn't want to resay it, it's one of the stupidest arguments I've heard in awhile.

[Zai]

You don't do meta? Then what is this?

This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.

That is him commenting on someone else's meta. Durdudur. He said he himself doesn't have meta-tells.

[Mr.Person]

Zai, you've only proven yourself scum with that post.

So, Web, your argument on Dakarian is that he talked to you instead of the crowd? That's stupid as hell, of COURSE he's going to talk to you, YOU ASKED HIM THE QUESTIONS! Nobody else asked him anything, why would he talk to them? I think I see why you didn't want to resay it, it's one of the stupidest arguments I've heard in awhile.

For the record, I would vote Webadict, but I don't know how many votes he has. Besides, Zai is still scum.

[webadict]

Zai, you've only proven yourself scum with that post.

So, Web, your argument on Dakarian is that he talked to you instead of the crowd? That's stupid as hell, of COURSE he's going to talk to you, YOU ASKED HIM THE QUESTIONS! Nobody else asked him anything, why would he talk to them? I think I see why you didn't want to resay it, it's one of the stupidest arguments I've heard in awhile.

No, I'm saying that he was only trying to prove himself to me so that I will indeed try to say he's town to the town. It's not a stupid argument and only stupid people would think so.

You don't do meta? Then what is this?

This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.

That is him commenting on someone else's meta. Durdudur. He said he himself doesn't have meta-tells.

FINALLY! I was starting to believe that no one would understand a word of what I said.

[Mr.Person]

Zai, you've only proven yourself scum with that post.

So, Web, your argument on Dakarian is that he talked to you instead of the crowd? That's stupid as hell, of COURSE he's going to talk to you, YOU ASKED HIM THE QUESTIONS! Nobody else asked him anything, why would he talk to them? I think I see why you didn't want to resay it, it's one of the stupidest arguments I've heard in awhile.

No, I'm saying that he was only trying to prove himself to me so that I will indeed try to say he's town to the town. It's not a stupid argument and only stupid people would think so.

That's a null tell, a townie would try and convince you he's a townie, as would a mafia member. Now, if he tried to WIFOM you, or used scum logic, or he tried really, really, really hard, or he was super-passive or lurky, then yes, he would be scum. But trying to convince you he's town is more of a null tell. It's a great thing to question him about, but it's not enough to say he's scum.

[Eduren]

You don't do meta? Then what is this?

This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.

That is him commenting on someone else's meta. Durdudur. He said he himself doesn't have meta-tells.

FINALLY! I was starting to believe that no one would understand a word of what I said.

Well I'm sorry that I misunderstood.

Nonetheless, somebody claiming that they have no meta-tells is like somebody saying that they are "just a little buzzed"; you are not exactly an impartial observer.

[Cheeetar]

Unvote Mephansteras. Webadict. No, Webadict, insulting everyone will not help you get further in life. Sit down in the corner a while and calm down, then come back when you're willing to post reasons and defend yourself instead of calling people morons. Oh, you have posted reasons? Where. You have defended yourself? Where.
SHOW ME THE REASONS.

Now you've done it.

WATCH THIS EVERYONE: I WENT BACK AND THIS TOOK ME FIVE WHOLE MINUTES TO BRING DOWN YOUR PATHETIC ARGUMENT:

lolololol.

You're funny to avoid an actual OMGUS. That, in itself, is scummy.

Weak derail is weak.

Now stop protecting Eduren.  He's who I'm after now. 

Or, at least, come up with something real instead of a vague non-accusation. 

Want something real?

dakarian. That's something real, you stupid moron.

That's a vote. You're passive and unemotional.

No, but I'm still a little confused here.

Who are you voting for and why?

Also, what do you think about Mephansteras?

I'm voting for Eduren.  A quick prod has proven that he's heavy into Self Preservation.  When I push you, you get bloodthirsty, though your method is rather meh.  When I pushed him, even when he had a good reason, he backed down and said 'I was joking'. 

Toonyman confirmed that, although Eduren can seem scummy when he's not, trying to save his own self is NOT a part of it.  Thus his actions can't be acused by meta or traditional means.

Thus why I'm getting serious about him. 


As for Meph...I noticed he's getting pushed hard.  I'll have to do an analysis on him.

Thus why I like the way that RVS went.  We've barely left it and I can already do an analysis on players .

Oh eduren is like that a lot. Which is funny because that's exactly what meta means. You seem to forget that meta is for both scum AND town tells.

My problem with you is that you're not how you normally are, and you push me off by saying that just because you're not how you are doesn't mean you're scum. Sure, that could be true, but I really doubt it. Null tell this and null tell that. You of all people know that finding scum isn't all about tells. There's a certain amount of lying that goes on as scum, and that's what you are.

YOU.

ARE.

A.

LIAR.

I'm fairly certain that your pants would be on fire. You give off scumtells just like everyone else, but oh no, those can be explained and these can be explained. So, why not give people something? Or are you just going to subtlely hint at my scumminess as you've done so far. Go for weaklings and then once you've injected enough larvae into a stronger one they can all hatch and consume him from the inside. Nah, we're going to play this in a way that doesn't involve you doing that.

K, Patches?

That's why I'm voting you. If you're town, which is incredibly unlikely, you're simply sowing seeds of distrust throughout the entire town. If you're scum, you're being very obvious.

To me. I truly haven't gleaned how the others find scum without power roles.

Whoah, I didn't know this had actually started. I just looked at the title and assumed we were still waiting. Anyway, Meph is putting out a few questions, which as I have seen in previous mafias e.g. B12 mafia, Meph asking questions is his scum tell.
I also find this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unvote.

Hmm...I'm going to vote Neruz. I find your logic a bit off.

A bit strange, as he dosen't explain in which post or how his logic is off. He unvoted later and voted Shadow for having very little words in his posts, which seemed to me an obvious role restriction. He then went back to 'pressuring Neruz', with little explanation. He also hasn't really explained himself well, and hasn't posted as much as other people have.

Well, you're right, that vote didn't have any explanation behind it. I was busy at work and didn't have time for much. However, I did explain myself more later after I switched back from shadow after he explained himself. Neruz was bouncing all over the place with little or strange reasons for the votes. Hence my comment that his logic was suspect. It's also why I've been pressuring him.

You seemed busy. I'll push you later for info.

To me. I truly haven't gleaned how the others find scum without power roles.

High and Mighty.

Wouldn't have to be if you did something, Mister Three Words.

Post something more than three words and we'll talk.

He's claiming a post restriction.  He can't post more than 3 words.

Then he can get modkilled. What do I care? Even if he's Town, he's not helpful, so he can speak more than three words or he can leave.

@Web

I don't know Eduren's meta.  Meanwhile, Toony disagrees: he says that self preservation ISN'T part of his meta.  That's why I'm on him.  I'll take your idea that he DOES act like this normally into consideration, but I want to hear more from him before I leave him alone. 



I pushed you off because you didn't explain yourself, just cried out "SCUMMY!"  I started actually talking to you once you brought up actual arguments. 

Where did you get me saying that I don't have scumtells?  I have reasons for what I do because..well.. I DO HAVE REASONS.  When you ask or accuse me about them I will give those reasons.  If they seem to fit ever so nicely into a package then there you go.  Hate me for it or love me for it, but that's what I do.

You claim I'm lying... on what?  That I'm not acting like myself?  That you don't believe my arguments? 


I suspect you.  Yes, I DO suspect you.  As such I'll push you.  I don't have a second vote so a FOS will do: since it's brought this result I'm glad I left it like that, since Eduren needs a LOT more pressure than you do.  Do I want you dead?  No, not yet.  I make THAT time very very clear and you aren't there yet.  Your emotions provide a very nice shield so it's hard to crack you, whether you are town or scum.  I want to say you cracked but if so you won't be readable till later.  For now, I'll need to be content where you are.

As it is, I can tell you didn't really analyze me very well.  How?  You didn't know who I was voting for, even though the posts just before our little argument was all about Eduren and my vote hasn't wavered from him for a while.  It's noteworthy, that's for sure. 


You want to disrupt me.  Sorry, I won't be disrupted.  Tried it, saw a town die by it.  I'll stick to what I do, thank you very much. 

Spoiler: As for Meph, Just did an anyl: (click to show/hide)

Sidenote: I'm on a ROLL.  For the past few posts I've actually written his name right !

Randomvote: Vista 

V Nurez: poor logic

V Shadow: Being evasive (presure vote)

Believes Shadow's under post restriction, unvotes,  V Nurez

Explains reasoning for actions on Shadow (waiting until post restriction ends before pressuring)

Pressure on Nurez

Everything else has been either pressure on Nurez or explaining why he's pressuring Nurez

I don't get the attacks on him, except for the first vote and his reasons for it.  His actions towards Shadow seem solid.  His push on Nurez looks like a regular scumhunt.  If he's scum, he's going to need a good deal more pressure if you want something to actually go off of.  For now his nose is cleaner than most.

It's funny. You're trying to reply to me in a way that I'll assume you're town.

You're posting for my approval and not to actually provide content. That "analysis" you did was subpar for you. I mean come on. I've seen you do big pages on person's post. Not that I really care, but you basically SAID what he did and didn't explain what he did.

And that whole vote thing? Is THAT what you're really going to bring up to make me look suspicious? I mean, you're STILL trying to make me look suspicious! Why don't you just put a big list or something, instead of doing it steadily, like a real accuser.

Hoo boy.

So much to read but I think I'll start here:

Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.

I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.

So look around, use what you know and can observe, and try to answer the question, please.

Well, the three other scum, Dakarian, Sir Bayer (Who I tried to get to post), and Zai, probably wouldn't appreciate me telling you that.[/joke]

But seriously, those are the ones I'm suspicious of. Not really Zai though, he's just kind of a random place holder.

My ideal scum team...I have no idea, gotta read some other B12 mafia games first.

Why are they suspicious?

Unvote.

And the question was?

Also. I find it funny how everybody is going after their own individual people and ignoring everyone else.

You think either me or Web is scum. That's a very, very scummy thing to say, and it's even worse that you didn't explain why you think that. So please, tell us.

1) Didn't say that either you or Web was scum, I said at least one of you (meaning both of you could be) was scum. 2) Not much reason behind it, actually. Can't recall why I said that. Been rather hyper today, if you couldn't tell. No longer suspicious of you at all though, M.P.

I now think at least one of Web and Meph is scum. Leaning more heavily on Web right now.

[PPE:] Yeah, Web's definitely scum.

Let's hear a reasoning, other than you feel like it, moron. All you're saying is that I'm scummy, and you're only applying it to a logic statement with no premises. Therefore, your statement is neither sound nor valid.

Wow, let's see someone with real intelligence accuse me this time.

Hoo boy.

So much to read but I think I'll start here:

Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.

I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.

So look around, use what you know and can observe, and try to answer the question, please.

Well, the three other scum, Dakarian, Sir Bayer (Who I tried to get to post), and Zai, probably wouldn't appreciate me telling you that.[/joke]

But seriously, those are the ones I'm suspicious of. Not really Zai though, he's just kind of a random place holder.

My ideal scum team...I have no idea, gotta read some other B12 mafia games first.

Why are they suspicious?

Sir Bayer is lurking (Or maybe has stuff to do) and Dakarian is just, as you said, scummy.
I think that I'll need to participate in the discussion a bit more before I can get any farther than that.

So, what about the other lurkers? Are they not suspicious as well?

And what about dakarian is the most scummy?

@Rashilul

Grounds for that scumteam?


@Neruz

mind quoting that so I know the context?

@Web

Going after someone for a post restriction is more of a waste of time than anything else. 

I post to answer your accusations.  If you don't like them, then bring more and new accusations. 

Mephs analysis was based on what he posted.  He went after Nurez for just about the entire time, with a small bit into Shadow.  There's not much to attack him on so that's that. 

The BIG analysis comes from several game days of posts (i.e. the Bay 12 analysis), a deeply scummy person (A few of my older ones), or involving just about everyone (Toony).  I give what I have.

Now, a question: is your main attack on me based on Meta?  You go on a lot about how you 'think' I should be acting.

My analysis goes on what I think is off about your explanation. I feel that you are presenting to me and not the crowd. The crowd is we and you're only trying to make me make them believe you're town. That's why I don't like your posts.

And yes about Meph. There isn't a whole lot to go on.

But, the post restriction thing isn't crap. He's obviously not helpful, and likely his role is just a bunch of crap. I'm pretty sure he can speak just fine, and he's only doing it to throw us off. And if he can't his role can't really be considered helpful, since we're playing a game of analyzation and not of "be a stupid a moron."

Let's hear a reasoning, other than you feel like it, moron. All you're saying is that I'm scummy, and you're only applying it to a logic statement with no premises. Therefore, your statement is neither sound nor valid.

Wow, let's see someone with real intelligence accuse me this time.

1) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be so condescending, Your Royal Highness. 2) I'm not trying to convince anybody here right now, and therefore do not need to explain my vote. I'll leave that to Dak, who I think will be much more persuasive. If he starts being scummy again, votes shall change.

At least one of the following is scum: Web, Meph, and Dak. Suspicions in that order right now.

... Did you really just say that someone else will explain your vote? Do you have no will? No thought? No soul? Because you're certainly not helpful to your cause. And you ARE trying to convince EVERYONE that the person you're voting for is scum. This isn't random voting if you say I'm scummy but don't say why, and you've certainly made it clear you're not going to say a why, because odds are you don't have a why, now do you? This is likely a test to see who will join you and who will flake. How that's helpful is debatable, but I honestly have better things to deal with than you.

And I never asked you to call me Highness. I won't treat you like a moron if you didn't, ya know, act like one. So, perhaps instead of being a whiney little baby, try stepping up and doing proper analyzing, instead of this WIFOM crap of "Duuuuuuuuh, I think at least one of the town is scum. Duuuuuuh." Yeah, because that's helpful to everyone. Give reasons why.

Webadict's playing baddly...

LOL.

Oh dear god. Somehow, I lost my entire fucking response to this thing. This thing, this thing here. It's bullshit. You said openly that you couldn't care less if Shadow was town and you lynched him, because he was useless despite the fact that his role restriction wears off tomorrow. You call people morons and disregard their posts because they suspect you. You vote people for appearing TOO TOWN.

[Zai]

Thank you for quoting that in its entirety, Cheeetar. I definitely needed to scroll that much more.

[Rashilul]

From now on:

Spoiler: SPOILERS (click to show/hide)

SPOILERS

[Eduren]

I think we should let him edit that.