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[dakarian]

We do have one.

I'd like to know more about the KWN aspect first though. 

Btw, Cheeetar.. EXPLAIN!

[Neruz]

Yeah, have to give kudos to Zai, i don't think anyone saw that Jesterising coming.


Also; Pandar, Leafsnail's role says he can revive once, or fake his death and steal someone else's place (i assume this is a roleswap with a target) the fact that LS is dead means that he was targeted for killing at least twice, correct? Or does it mean that he faked his own death? The role PM is a little unclear.

[Eduren]

Also; Pandar, Leafsnail's role says he can revive once, or fake his death and steal someone else's place (i assume this is a roleswap with a target) the fact that LS is dead means that he was targeted for killing at least twice, correct? Or does it mean that he faked his own death? The role PM is a little unclear.

His one-shot NK immunity is probably still with his target. So no, he was not killed twice. His replace power kills himself in the process.

[CobaltKobold]

...well, can't argue with the mod. I had plenty of reason to suspect webadict anyway, so voting him for the reasons I had pre-pardon yesterday.

Oh god.

Whose name are you taking in vain and why? *yawn* ugh, only six hours of sleep, probably will sleep more now.

Also; Pandar, Leafsnail's role says he can revive once, or fake his death and steal someone else's place (i assume this is a roleswap with a target) the fact that LS is dead means that he was targeted for killing at least twice, correct? Or does it mean that he faked his own death? The role PM is a little unclear.

His one-shot NK immunity is probably still with his target. So no, he was not killed twice. His replace power kills himself in the process.

I dunno, I've seen kill roles that bypass protections on IRC (hitman), doublekills (chuck norris might've had one, my memory's foggy) and the mafiascum wiki (sniper, was it?)

[Neruz]

Also; Pandar, Leafsnail's role says he can revive once, or fake his death and steal someone else's place (i assume this is a roleswap with a target) the fact that LS is dead means that he was targeted for killing at least twice, correct? Or does it mean that he faked his own death? The role PM is a little unclear.

His one-shot NK immunity is probably still with his target. So no, he was not killed twice. His replace power kills himself in the process.

It seems a bit odd though; if his 'swap places with a player' ability kills him that's fine, but i would have expected it to also swap role pm's. It seems a bit strange that his ability would allow him to swap places with a player, and then tell us all what he just did, which is why i'm asking.

Of course this is a bastard mod game so i don't entirely expect Pandar to answer, but the role pm is kind of unclear, so i'm hoping he might give a little clarification.

[Eduren]

Nowhere does it say that it is a 1-to-1 replacement. Look at it more of cloning somebody and killing the original. Then the clone takes the place of one of us.

[Apostolic Nihilist]

Uh... you don't suppose Leafsnail targeted webadict, do you?
Probably not.
Due to lack of mafia kill we can assume he used his power to replace someone. So we're down one scum, + one scum.

Now, I do question why Leaf decided to use his ability last night. There wasn't exactly a lot of suspicion on him and it kills him. The only reason he would sacrifice himself would be to gain a better scum player, right?
It seems likely he targeted one of the 'best' players. Webadict would be too obvious so he probably went for someone like:
Dakarian
CobaltKobold
ToonyMan(!?)
and some others who I can't quite recall now.


Anyways, webadict. Defying the mod probably isn't in Town's interests.
Just watch out for anyone who unvotes him...

[dakarian]

It's like the Advanced Doppleganger from Paranormal.  It's a suicide+conversion.

Example:

Players
Leafsnail = Envy
Litia = Townie

Night = Leafsnail targets Litia


Leafsnail is then killed in the night.  However, Litia now changes her role from townie to scum.


Yes, it meas leafsnail scum has died.  however, it DOES mean that someone who WAS town is now scum.  It's actually bad... VERY bad for us.

[Neruz]

It just seems odd that we'd get the role PM which tells us exactly what leafsnail did is all.

[Apostolic Nihilist]

It just means we can't use past evidence in the thread against them, right?
Unless they had a ridiculously useful pro-town role, it's not such a big deal. It would be devastating during a late-game situation, but early game it doesn't seem like it'd have much impact...

[CobaltKobold]

You guys seem strangely confident that Leafsnail was not double/superkilled. Almost like you know Leaf used the ability.

Give your reasoning, dakarian, Apostolic Nihilist, and show me that you're not the scum you look like, while I get some rest so I can write the paper due next week (easy, no class rest of week) and the paper due last term (don't ask why I got it extended, please)

[Apostolic Nihilist]

Because there was no mafia kill.
It's that simple.

Sure, someone might've been blocked. Maybe? Perhaps the kill was protected, who knows.
Just, what's more likely:
Mafia kill being blocked and Leafsnail being superkilled, OR Leafsnail using his ability?

[dakarian]

@Neruz 

The role PM is always shown on death in this game, so that aspect is unavoidable.

Meanwhile, Leaf dying is part of the role.  Story wise, he's killed someone and is now looking EXACTLY like that person.  Game wise, Leaf dies and someone just got converted.

There's a few benefits though from all this:  Now that we know Leaf is scum, we can run a scan to find his partners on D1.  Finding the convert will be impossible for the moment, but that will change later on. 

@CobaltKobold

Note that Leaf's replace power was based on the mafiakill, that is, to use it he had to be the one using the mafia's nightkill.  There's no other kill.  As such in order for leaf to have been killed by other means, there has to be a nonscum person who has a superkill/double kill AND the mafiakill had to have been stopped.

The chance that Leaf was double/superkilled AND the mafiakill getting blocked is far FAR less than leaf actually using his power.

[Rashilul]

Webadict, dakarian just ninja'd me and said what I was going to say anyway.

[Eduren]

Webadict, dakarian just ninja'd me and said what I was going to say anyway.

Say it anyway, we'd love to hear what you are thinking.