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[Aldaris]

Just a fun thread, pick a country, and try to express their law system in the terms LCS uses, this could be an interesting challenge. In order to avoid the worst flamewars, please don't try to do the same to the politicians.

[mainiac]

I'll do this... in America!

L+
Abortion Rights
Flag Burning

L
Free Speech


M
Pollution
Police Regulation
Death Penalty
Labor Laws
Nuclear Power
Gay Rights

C
Corporate Law
Civil Rights
Tax Structure
Womans Rights
Immigration


C+
Gun Control
Election Reform
Animal Rights
Military Spending


I don't really remember what Human Rights refers to.

Not sure where to put drug laws, because on the one hand, pot is essential legal in California (L) but on the other hand, we release violent criminals to make room for drug offenders (C+).

[Jonathan S. Fox]

I will also apply this to the US, since I would place some of the laws differently.

L:
Women have substantial recourse against discrimination.
Affirmative action is in place to counteract discrimination.
Abortion is mostly legal, but discouraged by law.
Homosexuals have many rights shared by heterosexuals.
Free speech is encouraged.
Flag-burning is legal but stigmatized.

M:
Great expense is taken to slow immigration, without success.
Moderate campaign finance reform is implemented.
Torture allegations still occasionally crop up.
Taxes are moderate, and the code has loop-holes.
Law enforcement is moderately regulated.
Privacy laws are moderate.
Nuclear power is often an energy source.
Industry is subject to moderate pollution regulations.
Workers still require some benefits.

C:
Prisons are filled with the targets of a war on drugs.
Massive investment is put into the military.
Animal research is lightly regulated.
The death penalty is actively enforced in many states.
Corporate culture is corrupt and there is a great disparity in wages.
Military weapons are banned, but similar-looking guns are available.

[Neonivek]

L+ and C+ are extremes.

So a C+ Gunlaw would be "Everyone must carry a shotgun on them at all times at penelty of being shot"

[LordBucket]

a C+ Gunlaw would be "Everyone must carry a
shotgun on them at all times at penelty of being shot"

So I suppose "every head-of-household must own a gun" is only C, right?

[G-Flex]

Abortion rights in the US are not L+. There are term limits and probably some other issues. I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing, I'm just saying.

And how is gun control C+? We have things like waiting periods, gun registration, background checks, etc. This varies a bit from state to state, I think, but still, guns are freely available to everyone at the drop of a hat everywhere.

[Zorgn]

I basically agree with Jonathan S. Fox's placing. Gun control is the only one I'm not sure about, since you can buy machine guns, just not ones made after 1986. Limited supply makes them a bit expensive, though.

[Neonivek]

And what Guns are more conservative or Liberal changes

For example a while ago Rifles were the first to wish to be banned because they were used to shoot cops
-Note: I am unaware of the full issue

In Canada however it is the opposite, they want to ban Pistols because they are easily hidden

Guns are in flux because they rarely fall under Conservative and Liberal but squarely in Public Safety. It becomes Liberal and Conservative when it is about the "Right" to own a gun

Someone once said in the Radio that despite Mayors claiming to be Conservative or Liberal as an attempt to gardner votes the job rarely actually involves these political views.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

IIRC, the way LCS structures it, C bans machine guns, M bans rifles that look like machine guns (the so-called assault weapons or cop killer rifles), L bans most handguns, and L+ bans everything else.

[mainiac]

Abortion rights in the US are not L+. There are term limits and probably some other issues. I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing, I'm just saying.

And how is gun control C+? We have things like waiting periods, gun registration, background checks, etc. This varies a bit from state to state, I think, but still, guns are freely available to everyone at the drop of a hat everywhere.

Term limits?  Partial birth abortion is still legal in this country.  The only legal restrictions I am aware of is that in some states they require a woman to listen to a checklist of conservative nonsense before the procedure.

As for gun control, it's a joke thanks to the gun show loop hole, straw man purchases and the fact that legal action isn't taken against vendors who knowingly sell guns to violent criminals.  A violent felon can buy military assault riffles without a waiting period or even an ID in 33 states.  The point of gun control isn't to annoy the legal gun owners.  It's to control the damn guns.

[Leafsnail]

Britain...

L+
Flag Burning (we honestly don't care)
Death Penalty

L
Free Speech
Abortion Rights
Labor Laws
Gay Rights
Womans Rights
Immigration
Gun Control

M
Pollution
Nuclear Power
Tax Structure
Corporate Law

C
Civil Rights
Military Spending
Police Regulation

C+
Election Reform
Animal Rights

Most of these were random guesses, although Death Penalty and Flag Burning are definitely L+ here.  Open to corrections on these.

[G-Flex]

Abortion rights in the US are not L+. There are term limits and probably some other issues. I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing, I'm just saying.

And how is gun control C+? We have things like waiting periods, gun registration, background checks, etc. This varies a bit from state to state, I think, but still, guns are freely available to everyone at the drop of a hat everywhere.

Term limits?  Partial birth abortion is still legal in this country.  The only legal restrictions I am aware of is that in some states they require a woman to listen to a checklist of conservative nonsense before the procedure.

As for gun control, it's a joke thanks to the gun show loop hole, straw man purchases and the fact that legal action isn't taken against vendors who knowingly sell guns to violent criminals.  A violent felon can buy military assault riffles without a waiting period or even an ID in 33 states.  The point of gun control isn't to annoy the legal gun owners.  It's to control the damn guns.

From Wikipedia:

On October 2, 2003, with a vote of 281-142, the House again approved a measure banning the procedure, called the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act. Through this legislation, a doctor could face up to two years in prison and face civil lawsuits for performing such an abortion. A woman who undergoes the procedure cannot be prosecuted under the measure. The measure contains an exemption to allow the procedure if the woman's life is threatened. On October 21, 2003, the United States Senate passed the same bill by a vote of 64-34, with a number of Democrats joining in support. The bill was signed by President George W. Bush on November 5, 2003, but a federal judge blocked its enforcement in several states just a few hours after it became public law. The Supreme Court upheld the nationwide ban on the procedure in the case Gonzales v. Carhart on April 18, 2007. The 5-4 ruling said the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act does not conflict with previous Court decisions regarding abortion.

Also, I'm aware the gun control situation varies from state to state, but C+ gun control laws means no gun control laws. There are still regulations, and certain types of firearm are still banned on the federal level to some degree.

[mainiac]

The partial birth abortion law doesn't actually stop partial birth abortion.  Gun control laws don't restrict who can own guns.  If a law is written in such a way that it can be ignored by a cosmetic shift in behavior, it doesn't constitute an important enough regulation to make 1/4th the difference between L+ and C+ behavior.

[ihateturnips]

The United Kingdom - my perspective (compare with Leafsnail's previous post)

L+
The death penalty is considered barbaric and never practised
Homosexuals have equal rights (in theory)
Flag-burning is legal*

L
Women have substantial recourse against discrimination
Affirmative action is in place to counteract discrimination
Abortion is mostly legal, but discouraged by law
Animal research is stiffly regulated
Nuclear power is intensely regulated and seldom used
Industry is subject to strict pollution regulations
Most guns cannot be sold to anyone outside of law enforcement**

M
Recreational drugs are prohibited unless medically prescribed
Great expense is taken to slow immigration, without success
Military spending is growing each year. (Unsure)
Moderate campaign finance reform is implemented
Torture allegations still occasionally crop up
Taxes are moderate, and the code has loop-holes
Privacy laws are moderate
Workers still require some benefits

C
Law enforcement is lightly regulated
Corporate culture is corrupt and there is a great disparity in wages
Some individuals are harassed because of their speech***

C+


* It's true - we really don't care at all.

** Well, nearest I could get.  The general public can't legally have guns unless for specifically licensed sporting or work use (I think).  

*** Consider the reaction to that evil blighter Nick Griffin being allowed to speak on the BBC.  Also the current trend on strong libel cases and gagging orders on the press (e.g. "super injunction" from Trafigura) - yet tempered by the strong and protected power of the press and media to satirise and highlight government hypocrisy (particularly Private Eye)

In contrast to Leafsnail's post, I disagree significantly with many of the placings - but it's a diverse country!  I, too, am happy to discuss.

[G-Flex]

The partial birth abortion law doesn't actually stop partial birth abortion.

It's still illegal/discouraged, and if you think the US as of right now is totally abortion-friendly... well, I just saw another pro-life billboard on the way to the DMV.

Gun control laws don't restrict who can own guns.

Again, a variably-ineffective law doesn't mean the law doesn't exist. Last I checked, I couldn't go buy military-grade fully-automatic weapons on the street corner.


L+ and C+ are meant to represent extremes. Look at the descriptions again for C gun control and L abortion: "Abortion is mostly legal, but discouraged by law" and "Military weapons are banned, but similar-looking guns are available" (roughly true).