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[Granite26]

Wouldn't the right answer to be that the jobs pay what the nobles say it should pay, and dwarves look for places that pay highly for his services?

Just... allow some control over those wages...

[Pilsu]

Not that I dislike the ideas, but aren't you conflating 'Master' as a skill level and 'Master' as a guild determined rank?

It's the only place the line could be drawn without it being entirely arbitrary. Proficient for the end of apprenticeship, largely because at that point they stop producing shoddy goods

[Granite26]

Not that I dislike the ideas, but aren't you conflating 'Master' as a skill level and 'Master' as a guild determined rank?

It's the only place the line could be drawn without it being entirely arbitrary. Proficient for the end of apprenticeship, largely because at that point they stop producing shoddy goods

As far as society goes, that's ok.  It's when you start saying people can't get to master skill without traveling around that irks me.  Not that that's what was said, I was just... going that way

[Atanamis]

Immigrants should never be "purchasable" in the sense that you can just buy one at a set price on demand. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to set a reward for one though, which might or might not attract a person of the requested skill level. For example, I could place a 40,000 coin reward for a master armor crafter, and if there is one out there willing to migrate for that fee they would come to my fortress. The cost to attract skilled workers would drop as your fortress became more attractive, though unless the skilled workers were unhappy in their previous home (perhaps due to famines or wars) they wouldn't normally come without an incentive. A dabbler might come on their own if you had a master for them to train under, but otherwise would not do so. Achieving your first masters should be a significant achievement, as it should allow possible guild membership and begin to attract students of that craft. (Of course, if you turn down their services in their field, the news should travel and you should cease seeing immigrants with that skill.)

[Pilsu]

Being able to rent foreign masters' services for apprenticeship would be a useful feature though. Getting your own masters would obviously do away with the need for diplomacy. Perhaps even create a demand for those dwarves to teach others

[Atanamis]

Being able to rent foreign masters' services for apprenticeship would be a useful feature though. Getting your own masters would obviously do away with the need for diplomacy. Perhaps even create a demand for those dwarves to teach others

I actually really like that idea. Sure, you can bribe a master craftsman from a neighboring city for a huge sum of money, but it should be much cheaper to just "rent" them to train up your own masters. Once you have a master, you can begin training your own craftsmen. Further along, you could rent out your own experts to other cities. Guild membership could be independent, but you should get negative consequences if you have master craftsmen who are not part of the guild (especially if they are making things).

[Silverionmox]

I'll mention the non-generic skills idea here: instead of just a one-dimensional skill progression measured in XP points, we can have a skill composed out of several (non-specific) parts: the glassmaking skill of different dwarves would then be 00101110 and 00101000, for example. That means that dwarf 2 can learn two things from dwarf 1.
 
The advantage is that this allows for regionally distributed knowledge: after a while, all the dwarves in your fortress have shared what they know, and it becomes necessary for some fresh blood to arrive, or to send someone to another fortress to train, in order to make further skill progression possible. That would add an extra impetus to diplomacy and exploration.

[Pilsu]

While the idea is good on paper, it'd end up being exceedingly irritating when you hand it over to the RNG. Practically speaking you'd need to send a guy away every bleedin' time you wanted the guys to level up since those novices that flood into your fort don't have the 1s you need or don't have high enough level 1s

[Silverionmox]

While the idea is good on paper, it'd end up being exceedingly irritating when you hand it over to the RNG. Practically speaking you'd need to send a guy away every bleedin' time you wanted the guys to level up since those novices that flood into your fort don't have the 1s you need or don't have high enough level 1s

It's strictly binary. It would be possible to tie them to specific techniques: either just the decorations, to simulate regionally tastes; even items an sich (cabinet, mug, etc.), but that would probably be more annoying than interesting.

If the immigrants come from your parent civilization, it would indeed be unlikely for them to bring techniques you didn't hear of yet. However, it shouldn't be necessary to know everything to reach the most skilled levels, and the lower levels don't even need to have any requirements. I'd say it would be fitting for skill levels that can produce masterpieces to require access to larger bodies of knowledge as represented by the skill specifics. An additional way to gain such skill aspects could be fey moods, after which that legendary can teach everyone else in the fortress.

[Pilsu]

Which would practically mean that you hand the tech level over to the RNG. No thanks

Artifacts schmartifacts. Enjoy your perfect knowledge of woodcrafting

[Silverionmox]

Not at all. It just takes some diplomacy to reach the highest skill levels, which is fitting since they are called legendary a.k.a. widely known and recognized as superior.

Besides, if playing is only worthwhile if half your fortress is legendary, ur doin it rong. Although there is a lack of tools to manage quality levels of the items that are used currently.

[Granite26]

It just takes some diplomacy to reach the highest skill levels, which is fitting since they are called legendary a.k.a. widely known and recognized as superior.

what?

[Pilsu]

Why exactly wouldn't your civ already be familiar with processes that are available by simply purchasing the knowledge from your neighbors?

It just reeks of fake difficulty and tedium

[Silverionmox]

It's not a blueprint, it's skill. You can't buy skill: you have to train it. It was normal for craftsmen in the middle ages to travel around to study with renowned masters.

It's not fake difficulty; if anything, making any dwarf eligible to attain perfection in his profession if he only tries hard enough is fake easiness. I expect exceptional quality items to occur as an exception, and the same goes for the artisans that make them.

You can't expect every hamlet out in the woods to achieve the pinnacle of craftsmanship in a matter of years, reinventing a whole civilization's repertoire of artistic and technical skill on their own... routinely.

[Footkerchief]

Why exactly wouldn't your civ already be familiar with processes that are available by simply purchasing the knowledge from your neighbors?

It just reeks of fake difficulty and tedium

Your civilization might not have made contact with neighbors at all.  Or the neighbors might have refused to sell knowledge to you, and for good reason.  Silkworm cultivation makes a good historical precedent -- it would be cool to have elaborate trade networks (e.g. the Silk Road) built up around the regional availability of certain goods.  It would also be cool to be the Fortress Mode player who makes a diplomatic breakthrough and acquires the knowledge, or to be the Adventure Mode player who fucks over an entire kingdom's economy by sneaking the knowledge out.