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Author Topic: Economic mod - Value Hell  (Read 4917 times)

Tael

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Economic mod - Value Hell
« on: October 25, 2009, 12:35:53 am »

I'm working on a universal item value decrease mod. The goal, is to reduce the value a fortress can possibly produce and how fast they do so. As it currently stands, a fortress as it starts can produce thousands of dwarf bucks in less than a season. It takes hardly any time to reach the economy trigger with almost any fortress if the player is playing with an expansive economy. Stone crafts are often worth absurd quantities for the number which people make and the multipliers which go into them -- one can run just a single craftsdwarf and buyout an entire caravan with a load of crafts.
While this mod probably won't solve all the problems, and does mean that you will start with far more resources when embarking, it should make getting large waves of immigrants much more difficult, and hopefully, make actually getting nobles and the economy something to strive for.

Currently I'm working on rewriting all of the raws for reduced value by 1/3rd for stone and ores, 1/5th for animals/animalproducts, and 1/3rd for plants/plantproducts. Glass I think will also get a 1/2 value reduction. . .
I do need suggestions though, because I'm not sure if this mod will be effective nor do I know if it will be a good idea.
So, before I finish with all of these RAWS and can start test-playing it. I'd like to see if anyone has any initial suggestions to change.

EDIT: Uploaded to DFFD
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1546
Alright, I've sucessfully changed most or all of the RAWs I initially plan on changing.
The change list is as follows:
Spoiler: Special animal cases (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Plants (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: stones (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ores (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Metals themselves (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: wood (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: glass (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Embark differences (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 03:13:10 am by Tael »
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Impaler[WrG]

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Re: Economic mod - value reduction
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2009, 12:43:58 am »

Most stones already have a value of 1, I wonder if 0 would make stone crafted items worthless.  If so then doing that for layer stone might make sense as the player could still use stuff like Microcline and Obsidian (worth perhaps 1 or 2 respectively) for crafting which would not be so bad.

Of course any value reduction is a double edged sword as it makes the stuff on the Caravan cheaper as well, I don't know how the quantity of goods will change in response to lower values, the caravan just might bring MORE stuff, dose anyone know for sure?

As for Plants their are some mods floating around already that try to reduce value and increase growing time so I'd focus on other areas to see what can be done their.
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Tael

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Re: Economic mod - value reduction
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2009, 12:52:07 am »

I should probably do a test run on the 0 stone value before I commit though.
See if it doesn't cause issues.
Of course, I'm going to assume no one will be willing to sit around long enough to bring 10k basic stones with them or something.
Or endless food or some such depending on how valuable I make the basic crops.
Basically I'm trying to find a balance between early game setup and beginner friendliness and late game difficulty/delayed effects of.

EDIT: EVERYTHING made from a zero value item has no listed value -- I just made crafts, doors, statues, and just about ever single thing that comes out of a mason's workshop. So, looks like while I COULD bring a full 1000 diorite on embark with me, its not like it does ANYTHING for my value at all.
Infact, it just takes up space. Now, I wonder what kind of meal a dwarf considers plump helmets to be if they are worth nothing. Also going to check if they get any happy thoughts from statue of valueless.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 01:13:56 am by Tael »
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Impaler[WrG]

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Re: Economic mod - value reduction
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2009, 01:09:09 am »

I personally find the most effective difficulty mod is to give dwarves [SLOW_LEARNER] which really slows down skill gain and thus the speed & quality of everything else include skill gain from a Strange Mood.
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Telcontar

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Re: Economic mod - value reduction
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2009, 01:30:32 am »

I'll second the 'slow_learner' bit. Putting that on my dwarves made the game much more enjoyable for me, as it made the path from being a beginner fort to being able to supply all my own needs that much longer.

Too, I've already done this project with my own home-grown mod. As a sample, none of the normal 'clothing' items are at a value of any more than 4 save a single item, which is at 5. Most are 2 or 3. This drastically lowers the value of the general fortress.

Food as well I have made near to worthless. I've also modded armor and weapons to require more metal, making it harder to increase my wealth through military preperation without first having large amounts of metal.
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nil

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Re: Economic mod - value reduction
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2009, 01:52:47 am »

Leather should be worth more than plant fiber, in my opinion.

Impaler[WrG]

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Re: Economic mod - value reduction
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2009, 04:01:11 am »

Could you share some of those files Telcontar, Teal and I would probably like too have a look.
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Niveras

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Re: Economic mod - value reduction
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2009, 05:34:02 pm »

I assume values need to be integers, meaning you can't use something like .1 or .5 for a stone's value? Or "1/2"?
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Tael

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Re: Economic mod - value reduction
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2009, 11:08:30 pm »

I believe so.
I don't think Dwarf fortress supports non-integer units but it wouldn't be TOO difficult to check. . .

Chromie

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Re: Economic mod - value reduction
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2009, 04:21:23 am »

Could you share some of those files Telcontar, Teal and I would probably like too have a look.

ditto!
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Tael

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Re: Economic mod - Value Hell
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2009, 03:15:26 am »

Oh well.
For now I'll just be satisfied with what I've set up so far.
Please, for those who wish to try it, go ahead. I'd really like any suggestions on how to improve it, or if some things are too valueable or not valuable enough. Or bugs. Bugs are nice to know about too. So I can see what I can do about them.
Don't think I can 'fix' the unlimited booze/food/stone bits though -- they just provide so much wealth so fast and so easily otherwise.
Heck, even layers of flux are still incredibly valuable.