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Author Topic: Making HFS scarier  (Read 32769 times)

PsyberianHusky

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2009, 04:55:59 am »

What about a demon that flays the skin of dwaves and wears it to infiltrate your fortress and then does things like corner dwaves alone away from your defenses and consumes them. It will also attempt to make accidents happen like pulling levers or pushing dwarfs down z levels.
It can be rooted out by viewing description but otherwise appears as a dorf.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2010, 10:54:38 pm »

Noone seems to realize what's going on here: It's not the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
that are trapped, it's the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
itself that the gods locked away and forever shunned.

And those aren't really
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
, or atleast they didn't used to be: they're dwarfs, or rather what the ancient proto-dwarfs who discovered the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
millenia ago were transformed into by the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
hideous radiation.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
is pure, concentrated evil, the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
are it's unintended gaolers, and once your dwarfs discover it, it will begin to work it's awful will on them, body and mind, eating up their souls until your whole Fortress literally becomes hell on earth.
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Kamudo

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2010, 11:15:35 pm »

When reading the Opening post, I was sorta reminded of Dead Space, how people slowly went crazy, and started seeing things, etc.

That'd actually be pretty cool. I want my dwarves going insane and seeing things, hearing voices, and random violence towards their peers. >_>
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2010, 11:30:45 pm »

Yeah, I do too. That's why I'd like to see it linked to
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
, or something similar in nature, aka: something irresistably valuable, but also infinitely corrupting.
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varkarrus

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2010, 10:18:49 pm »

Just a small, on-topic suggestion:

Dwarves, should they FALL into the pit, should have every drop of their body, plus limbs and bones and chunks fly out a couple frames later. Alternatively, make a person produce a twisted insane artifact whilst possessed a couple months later. Or have dwarves "Cancel sleep: interrupted by screams of Urist McDraggedtohell

Alternatively, make it possible to arrange expeditions to HappyPonyLand.
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And you can't eat them, either, sadly. Even though it'd make sieges so much more fun; dwarves lining the walls, drooling and carrying sharp knives and forks, ready for the upcoming meals.

SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2010, 10:28:00 pm »

More Lovecraftian atmospheric inexplicability would be great to see in HFS, and in the game in general. 
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Dakk

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2010, 12:52:24 am »

It'd be great if the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
did more then just butcher everyone, they should be able to do more.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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LordZorintrhox

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2010, 02:23:09 am »

The staring-at-a-wall is...amazing.  Cause you wouldn't catch it immediately, and then you'd be like "meh, just a bug" and then "OH CRAP, he's dead!"  Great stuff.

What about
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Miscellaneous:

-When you start getting close to the pits, spontaneous dwarven combustion may occur to a few unlucky dwarves.
-Easter Egg: Dwarf gets a fell mood and makes a Necronomicon of Dwarf Leather
-A dwarf goes insane and randomly starts pulling levers...
-A miner goes insane and randomly starts digging near water/magma...
-Random creatures or vermin in the fort mutate into random hell-beasts
-Pregnant creatures in the fort give still births or birth demon spawn
-Crops go off in the fields
-The ale goes SOUR (now THERE is a dwarven nightmare)
-A dwarf does not seem to be insane...until you notice that he has spent the time he would have been sleeping engraving the walls of his bedroom with the hellscapes that keep him awake.
-A dwarf will only eat live animals, seeking out kittens and vermins which he consumes raw.

That's all I got right now.
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...but their muscles would also end up looking like someone wrapped pink steel bridge-cables around a fire hydrant and then shrink-wrapped it in a bearskin.

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PsyberianHusky

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2010, 07:45:33 am »

The staring-at-a-wall is...amazing.  Cause you wouldn't catch it immediately, and then you'd be like "meh, just a bug" and then "OH CRAP, he's dead!"  Great stuff.

What about
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Miscellaneous:

-When you start getting close to the pits, spontaneous dwarven combustion may occur to a few unlucky dwarves.
-Easter Egg: Dwarf gets a fell mood and makes a Necronomicon of Dwarf Leather
-A dwarf goes insane and randomly starts pulling levers...
-A miner goes insane and randomly starts digging near water/magma...
-Random creatures or vermin in the fort mutate into random hell-beasts
-Pregnant creatures in the fort give still births or birth demon spawn
-Crops go off in the fields
-The ale goes SOUR (now THERE is a dwarven nightmare)
-A dwarf does not seem to be insane...until you notice that he has spent the time he would have been sleeping engraving the walls of his bedroom with the hellscapes that keep him awake.
-A dwarf will only eat live animals, seeking out kittens and vermins which he consumes raw.

That's all I got right now.


I love where this is going but I think some of these things should wait untill the magic arc, I really wanna see artifacts that as bad as HFS.
Such as after finding the glowing pit dwarfs will get in weird moods and make things like an axe is enchanted to cause the dwarf to be its puppet and go on killing sprees and the such, the other reason I want the magic ark to come around is I want thing like amulets that can protect my dwarf form randomly exploding 
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LegoLord

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2010, 04:25:12 pm »

Okay, there's a huge problem with these suggestions of ethereal, insanity-inducing HFS:  There is no way to fight it.  At least not being suggested.  Using priests just sounds like it'd be too easy when you have them, impossible to deal with if you don't.  You can't fight them, because they aren't creatures in the DF sense.

Why can't we just have actual creatures that sit in the pits, causing the insanity, that you can go in and do something about, rather than these invisible things that permanently cripple your fort?

For every problem, there should be a way to deal with it.  That's what makes it a challenge, rather than a nuisance.
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Smitehappy

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2010, 05:46:31 pm »

A dwarf's mood and personality should really have an impact on how they react to it to. A happy dwarf with a stable personality shouldn't be affected in the slightess. They only ones really effected should be dwarf with unstable personalities who are very unhappy. Dwarves prone to anger eventually go beserk with SoF HFS. Dwarves who get depressed easily eventully commit suicide by drowning themselves around Frogdemon HFS. Decadent dwarves could be corrupted by Tentacle demons and abduct other dwarves or spread insanity. A demons effect would be based on what sphere they represent.

Something like this is easy to prevent/halt, just make sure your dwarves are at least reasonably content and they demons will hold no sway over them.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 05:48:32 pm by Smitehappy »
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LordZorintrhox

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2010, 07:16:15 pm »

Well then the religion arc is probably the most suitable solution for the lay dwarf to halt the demon insanity.  As suggested, amulets keep your dwarves safe from minor supernatural events like crops going off, spontaneous breakage, and still births, Priests keep the fortress safe(r) from ethereal demon infestations and spontaneous combustion by anointing the fortress, and temples and temple paraphernalia keep unholy insanity down.

Some Noble ideas to support this:

Daemonologist: presence keeps demon influence down and helps deal with those ethereal flayers, poltergeists, and hauntings when they occur.  Requires a Study (designated from a bookcase) and a meditation chamber (designated from a "stone of scrying" or the like) in addition to usual noble demands.  Always have an affinity for images of demons and the supernatural.

Exorcist: cures supernaturally insane and possessed (not the mood) dwarves.  Poor skill in exorcism may result in the death of the patient...  Also needs a Study and a piece of furniture called an Altar.  Collects scepters, totems, and amulets for use in exorcisms.

Monk/Ascetic: Presence enhances the effect of amulets and idols in keeping small areas safe.  Seeing a monk gives dwarves happy thoughts and increases the affect of their specific talismans, so long as they're believers in that monk's religion.

Prophet: Similar to the philosopher, but religious.  Assuming that Philosophers will one day gives lessons and lectures in thought to dwarves who want to listen (what with the new teaching system, a possibility), the prophet does the same but with regards to religion.  Neither requests anything, but depending on the faith of the Prophet, he may refuse things you give them.  Prophets also increase faith in the population.

The religion solutions treat the problem defensively by arming the populace with faith.  Magic would then treat the problem more offensively by the few highly trained wizards closing extra-spacial portals, putting mental chains on the possessed to trap the demon inside them (forever, but controlled nonetheless), and actively seeking out demons and monsters in order to deal with them preemptively.

That leaves the methods very open to the player's tastes, mixing and matching ways to deal with demons.
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...but their muscles would also end up looking like someone wrapped pink steel bridge-cables around a fire hydrant and then shrink-wrapped it in a bearskin.

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Pilsu

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2010, 05:35:45 am »

I don't much care for the Jesus saves approach to trivializing demons. It's so overdone, it'd be better if you just plain had to deal with the occasional craziness
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LordZorintrhox

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2010, 10:59:42 am »

I didn't say anything about Jesus saves, nor are my suggestions the end all be-all.  Workable examples from faiths dead and living:

-Thor protects the realms from the forces of chaos (Giants) by use of a hammer that always hits
-Isis protects all with her love (a mother-figure in the Isis cult of I think Roman times)
-If you don't venerate your ancestors, they'll haunt your ass (China)
-Burning bundles of sage purifies a place of evil influence (Wicca)

In the DF multiverse, the gods are recorded as having been born at specific times, Titans (a very common feature of European traditions) actually walk the world and can attack you, and Demons can take over civilizations (even moreso in the new version). 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There is no reason to dismiss faith-based solutions to the malevolent forces of an explicitly supernatural world, and especially not for the reason it is "over done."  So are wizards in high fantasy, and so are dwarves and their alcohol.  Furthermore, no matter how you write it, not everyone can be an effective means of protection (pick your wizards, priests, clerics, or soldiers), so the lay dwarf will seek some way of protecting themself, and that usually means superstition, faith, and talismans, at least in the real world at the target time period.

Lastly, neither magic, faith, nor brute force can ward off every crazy-ass demon/ghost/titan/dragon/possession.  But giving the player no options of how to deal with them other than "kill it! kill it NOW!" is unacceptable.
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...but their muscles would also end up looking like someone wrapped pink steel bridge-cables around a fire hydrant and then shrink-wrapped it in a bearskin.

HEY, you should try my Dwarfletter tileset...it's pretty.
I make games, too

moghopper

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Re: Making HFS scarier
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2010, 11:46:01 am »

I have  a few suggestions:

1) Remove the code or whatever that allows creatures to AUTOMATICALLY know where dwarves and other creatures are. (Demons would attack only what is in their line of sight, and wander around aimlessly when nothing is in sight)

2) Make other creatures able to hide. (the leather workers could hide in their workshops for years while demons stalk the hallways, creating a kind of feeling of desperation)

3) Don't have the demons destroy furniture and stuff entirely. Instead replace destroyed objects with "ruined" counterparts. (adds atmosphere to a overrun or falling fortress, empty rooms are boring)

4) More demon types and abilities (the aforementioned ones are good)

5) have demons affect the environment after their release. Mutate animals, kill crops, spread goo everywhere, grow a killer fungus on the floors and walls, flooding outside, etc...

6) Demons affect the minds of the dwarves (possession, insanity, betrayal, becoming demons themselves)
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