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[Bauglir]

-snip-

[SirHoneyBadger]

Bauglir, once more with feeling:

Nobody ever said it would be "game over", that you wouldn't be able to do anything about it, or even that you couldn't safely pierce the HFS without anything bad happening at all. That's where you're not reading what I wrote.

And, once again, feel free to interpret what I said however you like, but please refrain from putting words into my mouth.

That's where I do get a little bit irritated. You talk about respect, but you're not respectful enough to 1: read what I wrote in the first place, or 2: believe me when I tell you what I did have in mind.

Thirdly, you're defending someone who *did* attack me in a personal way, when he claimed that I, personally, think the "best ideas are the ones that are the most annoying". That's an general statement of derision towards every idea I've come up with, but also towards my own mindset, and done without any qualifiers. 

Other than that, yes, I am trying to be civil, although you're not making it terribly easy.


Now, can we please move past what I atleast consider a pretty insignificant matter, and get at all back on the subject of the thread?

Here, I'll make it easier: I'm wrong about everything, and you're right about everything. All better? Hm?

[Bauglir]

-snip-

[SirHoneyBadger]

Yep. 

[Bauglir]

-snip-

[SirHoneyBadger]

Once the HFS is breached, you might also see weird monsters either appearing from who knows where, or being somehow produced/mutated from existing animals by the clowns.

You could also get into various "bad signs": comets, blood moons, prophecies, strange births (again possibly leading to weird monsters appearing), maybe strange and/or famous deaths, fell moods, and the like.

[Eric Blank]

First page, 5th reply, In Soviet Dorfland, HFS mine for YOU!

first page, 6th reply, dorf goes nutters and gets addicted to HFS wall the way people do to every drug and eventually dies for it. Chance of going berserk

First page, eighth reply, More, tougher, diverse, demons with their own pets. Multiple Sieges.

Third page, excorcisms.

All of these combined would make for one hell of a time with the HFS, without requiring any of that "TOO DEEP" that apparently used to boot you from your fortress (does it still?)

Demons that sneak out and kidnap people would be interesting, especially if it happened unannounced except in the thoughts of dwarves that knew them like "idiotstick has been fine lately. He was unnerved by the disappearance of an acquaintance lately." Perhaps ones that go insane in the manner described in reply #6 could attempt to go there themselves if it's open, coming and going at random, becoming stranger and stranger, maybe coming back in a berserk rage at one point.
The suggestion of being outright controlled by demons is also pretty good.
If you think about it there's not much difference between demon and dwarf nobles...

Another interestingscary idea would be a tag that allowed them to butcher and use any creature while it's still alive, maybe a seperate one for cannibalistic butchering, and some value in the creatures' raw would prevent it from caring if it were the victim of such.. This could be used on demons and the like to let them mutilate and eat each other, their victims, maybe themselves? The demons would need a way to regenerate body parts without resting though. (S)TDs, now ripping your arm off and eating it without killing you first! This could also happen to the ones that go insane due to the HFS

With all that, you'd have to also make them fairly inactive so they don't slaughter you outright, like allowing only one tunneler, kidnapper, and insane cultist at any time, apart from the sieges, then would be an appropriate time to let them throw absolutely everything at you (still only one of those three specials though. Exorcists, priests, and healers could be employed by the player along with the army to neutralize these.
I at least would be happy with this.

Once the HFS is breached, you might also see weird monsters either appearing from who knows where, or being somehow produced/mutated from existing animals by the clowns.

You could also get into various "bad signs": comets, blood moons, prophecies, strange births (again possibly leading to weird monsters appearing), maybe strange and/or famous deaths, fell moods, and the like.

This is awesome too, letting creatures above ground, newborns, and such become monsters occasionally and attack you. And the incorporation of the astrological suggestions thread could give this some neat effects and some predictability on the part of when things are more likely to occur.

[Pilsu]

Bunnies shouldn't just spontaneously turn into beasts, that's silly. Any changes need to be gradual and preferably have more to do with their temper, otherwise you might as well spawn stuff out of thin air

I don't much care for the gods throwing a hissy fit over any of this. A dragonfly god of fertility does not strike fear in my heart. If anything I'd roll my eyes if the game expected me to take deities like that seriously. Wonder if it'll be possible to mod them into being plain imaginary

[Morrigi]

Bunnies shouldn't just spontaneously turn into beasts, that's silly. Any changes need to be gradual and preferably have more to do with their temper, otherwise you might as well spawn stuff out of thin air

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.zachriel.com/killerrabbits/Killer_rabbit.jpg

[sproingie]

I'm actually warming up to the idea of the HFS being unwinnable.  Not if you just nibble a little of the adamantine, not even if you open up some of the pits.  But eventually there should come some point where you realize you've "dug too deep", and you just know You Are Doomed for having awakened Something Great And Terrible and it's only a matter of time before It Comes For You.  Dread could make for Fun.

Well, it makes good drama anyway.  But as gameplay goes, it probably wouldn't work.

[mendonca]

Well, it makes good drama anyway.  But as gameplay goes, it probably wouldn't work.

On some level, I'm of the opinion the game is more about the drama than the gameplay, in the long term anyway.

When the game develops to the point where it genuinely is about PLAYING THE WORLD rather than THE FORT, I think this whole spectrum of disasters will certainly have its place in the legends of that world. Including no-win situations, sinkholes to the center of the world, zombie rampages, rotten food and every god-damn thing.

[Julien Brightside]

Would be nice that once you open the cave, there will be a trail of blood spreading from its center to the wall and creeping onwards, kinda like when you accidently dig a river into your fort.

[Malrin]

Yeah, how about when the game detects that the player is getting close to, or has already breached the HFS, random creepy things start happening with increasing frequency.

Like trails and patterns of blood, creepy engravings appearing in random spots, tombs going empty, mutilated animal corpses turning up in unusual locations, certain underground rock walls spontaniously turn into statues, vermin displaying aggressive and irrational behavior, walls secreting blood and other strange fluids, strange creatures or entities moving about but disappearing before the player can pause and [V] check them, elf body parts appearing even though there are no elves in your world, statues that move when they're not on screen, etc.

They will have very little effect on gameplay, but still make the player think "what the f**k is going on here?"

But eventually it'll be documented and the players will instead think "Oh, found the HFS, now the walls are spurting goop, the noble is complaining about the elf heads in his room, and the workers are complaining about creepy face images on the walls. Shouldn't be a big deal and... dammit, that statue is blocking my hallway again, maybe I should chain him up in the statue garden."

[SirHoneyBadger]

The way I feel about the gods in the game is that it's not whether you believe in them, it's about your dwarfs and their beliefs, and in whatever ways the gods may influence the world of the game.

Worship is (a confirmed) part of the game. Saying that you don't take the gods seriously, in the context of the game, is like saying that you don't take seriously the threat of a rampaging dragon burning down your neighborhood.

[groo]

Fireballs are currently unblockable and can utterly flatten even the most overpowered Champions, so if your HFS has spirits in it then that's already fairly scary, IMHO.

I'd go for more atmospheric changes than actual let's-kill-the-fort changes, I think players should be able to survive the HFS if they try hard enough. But I do think the pits should probably create more clowns as long as they're exposed to the fort.