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[Milksquid]

Having insanity affects become stronger with fortresses in related spheres might be cool.
'I knew I shouldn't have built my home on the Cliffs of Insanity. All this madness is Inconceivable!'

[NewoTigra]

hehehehe...

I wonder...what would adding the [DEEP] tag to EVERY stone + layer do? An entire world filled with HFS? Surely a recipe for Fun.

[Deimos56]

...Sadly, that would probably just flood your world with "Rock".
And you'd almost never find anything valuable surrounding the HFS pit, as it would most likely turn out to be microcline.
Only one pit per tile that's represented by a triangle, unfortunately.

[LegoLord]

I think that most of the problems with how easy demons are now is mostly due to exploiting glitches; such as knocking out demons to catch them in cages, and cave-ins destroying anything under them utterly.

As for digging demons, if they can dig, precisely what is keeping them in before you yourself breach the pits?

Finally, as for permanent nuscances . . . I think it should be hypothetically possible to beat back anything the game throws at you.  If you have a constant stream of creatures that are clearly superior to your dwarves in size, strenght, endurance and speed, you just won't be able to do that, no matter how good your champs are - they'll get tired eventually.  I've heard tell of fortress with 60+ champions falling to demons, even those that aren't SoF.  For something like madness, I just don't see a way of dealing with that without making it either A) way too easy if you have what is needed, or B) impossible if you don't have what is needed - after all, if it's an intangible thing, how do you fight it?

[snaggles]

One possible type of insanity: Dwarf occasionally cancels work, paths as close to the walled-off HFS as possible, and just sits there staring at it for a while before going back to work.
Over time the dwarf will cancel more and more often, and spend more and more time near the HFS. Eventually he does no work and only leaves the HFS to eat/drink
Eventually he stops doing even that, and just stares at the wall until he starves.

Also:
-The dwarf should have some small chance of going berserk any time during the process, depending on how far gone they are, and their personality.

-The message for job cancellation should be random each time, representing the dwarf hallucinating.
ie: -Dwarf hallucinates that his skin is burning off, and cancels his task with the "too injured" message.
-Dwarf hallucinates being attacked and cancels with "interrupted by [random creature]".

Urist McHammerlord cancels Rest, interrupted by HFS
OH GOD OH GOD DEMON IN FORTRESS SHIII-
Oh. It's just Urist hallucinating again.

[Pilsu]

Infinite stream of demons need not be constant. They could show up in waves at random interwalls. Some years you'd get only a few stragglers but other years entire armies would pour out. Random, keeps you on your toes. Plays up the whole unknowable factor. Demon pathfinding issue needs to be fixed first though

Volcanic region pits would be literally impossible to contain though. I think Toady should tone down the heat a bit, it melts the adamantine rocks left lying around which seems really silly


I'd prefer if pits were larger myself. The current design is haphazard and boring. I'd prefer to see larger chambers, perhaps even ones arranged purposefully. Having a bit more substance wouldn't hurt, frog demons seem disconnected from their element. Takes more than a few pits of water to make it fit

[Grendus]

1. I can't figure out if the demons are locked under the mountain by Armok or whoever or if they're escapees from hell. The glowing pits suggest one thing while being surrounded by the hardest metal suggests something else.

2. It would be cool if there were multiple types of pit. Glowing pits could be a mass escape from hell, which would contain legions of weaker demons lead by the ringmaster that would "invade" (possibly announced like other races invading). Other more powerful demons would be hidden in small pits (possibly completely hidden much like how future areas will have magma and water more commonly underground) at random, with tiny deposits of adamantine hiding SoF like monsters.

[Belteshazzar]

I presume deamons are unable to dig through adamantine by hand, it seems strong enough to make viable cheese-wire and mono-edge (foil) weapons (without the need for a support bar!) The effect of trying to dig through a mesh or web of this this by hand (or even with a steel pick) would likely be to utterly shred the digging tool.

There is also the possibility of Adamantine being wholly (or even holy) antithetical, to these deamonic forces and powers, making a weapon or armor of it, the best offense against such foes (as if Adamantine needed to be even more awesome!)

[ArkDelgato]

So, the "King of hell" has stationed the small outpost of demons inside a capsule of blessed stone, just as a precaution in case someone mines in.

Logical enough, explains them not getting out (Holy, can't touch or you are burned in the soul) and dwarves being able to mine it (The stone in adamantium is soft and malleable, it's the thread that gives it it's strength.

I still like the idea of the first years of game time being a war between gods and demons until one side wins (obviously stacked on the gods side to win for new players, but still with a chance of playing df in hell-on-earth)

[Hummingbird]

So, the "King of hell" has stationed the small outpost of demons inside a capsule of blessed stone, just as a precaution in case someone mines in.

Logical enough, explains them not getting out (Holy, can't touch or you are burned in the soul) and dwarves being able to mine it (The stone in adamantium is soft and malleable, it's the thread that gives it it's strength.

I still like the idea of the first years of game time being a war between gods and demons until one side wins (obviously stacked on the gods side to win for new players, but still with a chance of playing df in hell-on-earth)

Doesn't have to be just the first years.  It could be an ongoing war throughout history and still happening at the end of worldgen, the outcome of which the player could attempt to influence, should Fate allow.

Right now I'm reading Virgil's Aeneid (in the original Latin) at school so I've been getting into the whole gods-influence-the-affairs-of-men-to-suit-their-own-purposes kind of thing. 

[LegoLord]

I'd prefer if pits were larger myself. The current design is haphazard and boring. I'd prefer to see larger chambers, perhaps even ones arranged purposefully. Having a bit more substance wouldn't hurt, frog demons seem disconnected from their element. Takes more than a few pits of water to make it fit

Most, if not all, of the underground features have been or are being totally revamped for the next version.  Just look at the screen shots of underground water on the dev page (which according to recent posts has been improved since the pictures were taken).  I wouldn't be surprised if the pits were likewise improved.

[Smitehappy]

How about demons that just don't charge out and attack. Maybe a snatcher demon sneaks out of the pits and quietly drags a lone dwarf into the abyss for god knows what. The dwarf could come back later changed or as a sort of sleeper agent for the demons. Or succubi who blend in with your population and spread havok through your fortress in order for the other demons to catch you off guard while you're busy putting down tantrums and meloncholy dwarves?

[TerminatorII]

Personaly I see teh Pits as Portals to Worlds aready conqored by evil gods and daemons.

In David Webers small trilogy called The War God's Own, He uses The Good White Gods and Evil Dark Gods are battling for control of individual universes within the whole multiverse. Niether side can directly control events, they have to sway the beings within the universes to obey them to influence that universe.

The Dark Gods more often then no bend the rules and open portals to allow powerful beings from preconquored universes through to aid thier cause, but even then they cannot open those portals without help from the beings within that universe. To counter that the Light Gods will bestow a Hero with a part of thier power and esscence to deal wit hteh evil and close the portals and dispose of the evil monsters. (this does not always work tho).

The way I see the pits is they are portals to evil universes and the forces within those universes are trying to get out to unleash evil.

Adamatium can then be explained as
1. a reaction the rock has to teh exotic particles release when the portal was formed,
2. a barrier raised by the Light Gods that can only be removed by creatures within that universe,
3. a sealed up portal from a long bygone time.
4. a prison for daemons that because of thier near god status cannot be killed outright, but because they are still flesh and cannot be a god (and thus not punish like one either but must be treated like a mortal of flesh) cannot be banished to hell are sealed in halls made of stone with a rock that is leathal to thier flesh.

[LegoLord]

Demons.  Not daemons.  The latter is a type of computer program.  For awhile I was scared there was a virus on my computer because people were always using the incorrect spelling to refer to demons.

Now, on topic, the Light vs. Dark god thing sounds a bit too scripted an explanation.  Scenarios in DF are going to end up being generated largely on the spot.  That's definitely the sort of thing that should be able to come up, but it shouldn't always be the case in every world.

[TerminatorII]

I actually meant Daemons. Look it up. sorta like demigods, but with more of a spirit context.