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[Apostolic Nihilist]

No, it's just refinement.

Rereading BM3 I realized my style of posting was painful to read (at least on wide resolutions), so I copied your's.

[Vector]

No, it's just refinement.

Rereading BM3 I realized my style of posting was painful to read (at least on wide resolutions), so I copied your's.

....

Well, okay, then.  I suppose my post-style looks rather funkalicious, in that case, and I'll submit here that I didn't see you post like this in BYOR.  However, I noticed a distinct increase in choppiness whenever you were worried.  So I'm sticking on you, partially because I'm wondering if you'll slip more.

[Rysith]

What would scum do?
They'd fake claim. There's no other action to take. It's almost the only way to defend yourself.

His claim doesn't change my perception of the situation at all.

And I'd rather not waste a lynch on myself: if we do have a 6D time limit, we don't have many more mislynches left.

No matter who's lynched, though, I suggest the (useful) cops investigate either me/eduren/NUKE.

I'd say Janus, but we should prioritize scum firstly.

So, who's scum? You are obviously claiming town for yourself, and with me, Vector, and Dakarian as town you've got four left. If you are town, please try to contribute to the discussion.

I'll go ahead and point out the seeming-unawareness of how many mislynches remain, and the non-voting OMGUS as further scum tells.

[Rysith]

EBWOP: I had misread the voting state, there isn't a non-voting OMGUS in there.

[dakarian]

The claim fits nicely with what's going on.  It's, however, dangerous to mark someone town just because the claim fits.  Those coming from BYOR:ExKirby has seen that in action.

Besides, when I found Web guilty the first time, the assumption wasn't that I was sane and he was miller-it was that I may be paranoid or random.

If he was always a miller, wouldn't he come in saying "you might be sane then"?

[webadict]

The claim fits nicely with what's going on.  It's, however, dangerous to mark someone town just because the claim fits.  Those coming from BYOR:ExKirby has seen that in action.

Besides, when I found Web guilty the first time, the assumption wasn't that I was sane and he was miller-it was that I may be paranoid or random.

If he was always a miller, wouldn't he come in saying "you might be sane then"?

... My problem is that I'm not sure why everyone is just taking my claim at first glance. I wouldn't. Nobody even seems to be pushing really hard about it. It'd be like me making the word Quizzical in Scrabble. Sure, it's possible, but I'd really like to know how I got 2 Z's, a Q, and 8 letters?

Just because it fits doesn't mean you can't make sure.

So, yeah, I was really hoping I wouldn't have to claim, and I was hoping you were Paranoid or Random, because it'd make much more sense and we'd be actually playing the game. It seems we're relying on PRs more than actual gameplay BECAUSE of the lack of NK.

Hm... Well, for me innocent would mean guilty.

Honestly, though, I'm inclined to believe you--which means that we need to find someone else on our ginormo list of people who is scum, and quickly.  Unvote.

Webadict - also think he is town.
Vector - insane cop
Rysith - think he is town.
NUKE9.13 - absent.
JanusTwoFace - possibly pulling a Bay12 gambit
eduren - Paranoid cop?  Acting like town-eduren
Apostolic Nihilist - tends to be pretty scummy as town, but I think he's scum from his behavior D1/other things I know of him.
dakarian - WTF cop?  Do not trust my reads on him, completely opaque.  Inspection implies town.

I think I've got it narrowed down to three (likely) people:

JanusTwoFace, NUKE, and Apostolic Nihilist.

I'm just going to push you a little bit.

[Vector]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hm... Well, for me innocent would mean guilty.

Honestly, though, I'm inclined to believe you--which means that we need to find someone else on our ginormo list of people who is scum, and quickly.  Unvote.

Webadict - also think he is town.
Vector - insane cop
Rysith - think he is town.
NUKE9.13 - absent.
JanusTwoFace - possibly pulling a Bay12 gambit
eduren - Paranoid cop?  Acting like town-eduren
Apostolic Nihilist - tends to be pretty scummy as town, but I think he's scum from his behavior D1/other things I know of him.
dakarian - WTF cop?  Do not trust my reads on him, completely opaque.  Inspection implies town.

I think I've got it narrowed down to three (likely) people:

JanusTwoFace, NUKE, and Apostolic Nihilist.

I'm just going to push you a little bit.

Go for it.  You may scare me, but it'll be better for the town if someone presses me some.

[webadict]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hm... Well, for me innocent would mean guilty.

Honestly, though, I'm inclined to believe you--which means that we need to find someone else on our ginormo list of people who is scum, and quickly.  Unvote.

Webadict - also think he is town.
Vector - insane cop
Rysith - think he is town.
NUKE9.13 - absent.
JanusTwoFace - possibly pulling a Bay12 gambit
eduren - Paranoid cop?  Acting like town-eduren
Apostolic Nihilist - tends to be pretty scummy as town, but I think he's scum from his behavior D1/other things I know of him.
dakarian - WTF cop?  Do not trust my reads on him, completely opaque.  Inspection implies town.

I think I've got it narrowed down to three (likely) people:

JanusTwoFace, NUKE, and Apostolic Nihilist.

I'm just going to push you a little bit.

Go for it.  You may scare me, but it'll be better for the town if someone presses me some.

Okay then: What do you think of how Day 1 ended?

[Vector]

Okay then: What do you think of how Day 1 ended?

I have mixed feelings on it.  The part where we converged on so many different people and then forgot about them worries me, as did the fact that Pandarsenic was able to lead an Archangel lynch.  On the one hand, we managed to get rid of a chronic lurker; on the other hand, it means that the town was being far too passive and bandwagony.

I also looked back at AN's posts when he was being attacked that day.  Same choppiness.  I think Pandarsenic was considering bussing him, but when the town abandoned him for Archangel, he happily left the bandwagon.

[Rysith]

... My problem is that I'm not sure why everyone is just taking my claim at first glance. I wouldn't. Nobody even seems to be pushing really hard about it. It'd be like me making the word Quizzical in Scrabble. Sure, it's possible, but I'd really like to know how I got 2 Z's, a Q, and 8 letters?

Just because it fits doesn't mean you can't make sure.

So, yeah, I was really hoping I wouldn't have to claim, and I was hoping you were Paranoid or Random, because it'd make much more sense and we'd be actually playing the game. It seems we're relying on PRs more than actual gameplay BECAUSE of the lack of NK.

Well, there isn't much else to go on. The lynches have been fairly unopposed, we can't look at people who attacked people who were killed, etc.

I trust your claim because it seems to fit what we know of the setup, seems like a toony-kind of role, and fits into a theme suggested by my role. All three of those, I think, lessen the chance that it's a false-claim.

[webadict]

... My problem is that I'm not sure why everyone is just taking my claim at first glance. I wouldn't. Nobody even seems to be pushing really hard about it. It'd be like me making the word Quizzical in Scrabble. Sure, it's possible, but I'd really like to know how I got 2 Z's, a Q, and 8 letters?

Just because it fits doesn't mean you can't make sure.

So, yeah, I was really hoping I wouldn't have to claim, and I was hoping you were Paranoid or Random, because it'd make much more sense and we'd be actually playing the game. It seems we're relying on PRs more than actual gameplay BECAUSE of the lack of NK.

Well, there isn't much else to go on. The lynches have been fairly unopposed, we can't look at people who attacked people who were killed, etc.

I trust your claim because it seems to fit what we know of the setup, seems like a toony-kind of role, and fits into a theme suggested by my role. All three of those, I think, lessen the chance that it's a false-claim.

...Are you yellow?

[Rysith]

...Are you yellow?

No, I'm pro-town. However, the idea of another pro-town actor who is a miller (only a miller?) in a game what for the most part has been revolving around the sanity of our cops, with toony-like logic, makes it seem like it's less likely to be fake.

I am curious to know what you meant the morning of D2 when you accused Dakarian immediately, which would seem to imply a role beyond just miller.

[dakarian]

@Web

I was thinking of your quote actually when I wrote it.  It's true, though: I haven't seen an OMGUS actually catch scum yet.  Closest I've seen is in BM2 when Pandar(scum) was randomvoted and Diakron(scum) voted back to attack. 


As for the cop matter.. I wasn't thinking townie (vector IIRC brought that up, and it makes sense now).  I WAS thinking Dephy though and, honestly, I'm still pondering if the cops all have various sanities. 

It wasn't so much the Arch death that made me target you: I did believe you when you said you had no other targets.  You were inspected because, frankly, you're Webadict who's reputation has ended up with a game dedicated to trying to actually kill you off.  So I investigated, was told you were "obviously mafia", saw the mafia die N2, then my gut screamed "something is #&(*%$# wrong here". 

I'm glad I told, in the end.  It ended up confirming just how the game is being run, gave us a small puzzle to solve that won't take up too much time from the town, and all with plenty of time in the day to go scumhunting. 

As for believing Janus: I learned the bay 12 lesson of 'role proof =! alignment proof'.  I also know, though, that Josh needed 3 full days to fully ripen his scuminess and that going after him before then would've been just WIFOM.  Janus was my prime target in D1.  That he is claiming a kill no one else will claim means all that is softened, but we'll see more as the days go by.  I won't drink the Wine when I have a stronger choice in my sights.

I've been thinking and I'm pretty sure that the name of the role itself is Sane Cop, and in no way affects its alignment. But, your role PM leads me to believe you're Paranoid, as opposed to Insane, and that these PMs might give an idea for what sanity you are.

Web.. web dear.  Something bugs me about this.

"my role PM leads you to believe I'm Paranoid, as opposed to Insane".

Given that statement, it suggests that I saw you as Guilty because I'm seeing EVERYONE as guilty or else seeing Town as scum and the other way around. 

In order to believe that I'm insane, that would mean that a truly sane cop would view you as Town.

But now you claim a miller role.



If you ARE a miller, your text would read like this:

"I've been thinking and I'm pretty sure that the name of the role itself is Sane Cop, and in no way affects its alignment. But, your role PM leads me to believe you're Paranoid or Random, as opposed to Sane, and that these PMs might give an idea for what sanity you are."


D2 you were Town and I was insane or paranoid.   Today I'm sane and you're a miller.


I believe I'm done now.

@Everyone

Please read my argument against Webadict, particularly his claim and how it works with how he argued with me before.

If there is a flaw in my argument, please show it so I can make my statements more clear or reassess my stance.

If you find that I make sense and you aren't sure, please post to web with your question or accusation so that you can be sure one way or the other.

If you find my argument sound and have no further questions, then please vote for webadict and let's finish this day.

[JanusTwoface]

I realize that this is a shorter post than I normally make, but vote webadict.  What dakarian says makes sense. 

I'll be online the rest of the day to respond to comments, but I may take a bit.  I'm working on applications to graduate school... Great fun.

[webadict]

@Web

I was thinking of your quote actually when I wrote it.  It's true, though: I haven't seen an OMGUS actually catch scum yet.  Closest I've seen is in BM2 when Pandar(scum) was randomvoted and Diakron(scum) voted back to attack. 


As for the cop matter.. I wasn't thinking townie (vector IIRC brought that up, and it makes sense now).  I WAS thinking Dephy though and, honestly, I'm still pondering if the cops all have various sanities. 

It wasn't so much the Arch death that made me target you: I did believe you when you said you had no other targets.  You were inspected because, frankly, you're Webadict who's reputation has ended up with a game dedicated to trying to actually kill you off.  So I investigated, was told you were "obviously mafia", saw the mafia die N2, then my gut screamed "something is #&(*%$# wrong here". 

I'm glad I told, in the end.  It ended up confirming just how the game is being run, gave us a small puzzle to solve that won't take up too much time from the town, and all with plenty of time in the day to go scumhunting. 

As for believing Janus: I learned the bay 12 lesson of 'role proof =! alignment proof'.  I also know, though, that Josh needed 3 full days to fully ripen his scuminess and that going after him before then would've been just WIFOM.  Janus was my prime target in D1.  That he is claiming a kill no one else will claim means all that is softened, but we'll see more as the days go by.  I won't drink the Wine when I have a stronger choice in my sights.

I've been thinking and I'm pretty sure that the name of the role itself is Sane Cop, and in no way affects its alignment. But, your role PM leads me to believe you're Paranoid, as opposed to Insane, and that these PMs might give an idea for what sanity you are.

Web.. web dear.  Something bugs me about this.

"my role PM leads you to believe I'm Paranoid, as opposed to Insane".

Given that statement, it suggests that I saw you as Guilty because I'm seeing EVERYONE as guilty or else seeing Town as scum and the other way around. 

In order to believe that I'm insane, that would mean that a truly sane cop would view you as Town.

But now you claim a miller role.



If you ARE a miller, your text would read like this:

"I've been thinking and I'm pretty sure that the name of the role itself is Sane Cop, and in no way affects its alignment. But, your role PM leads me to believe you're Paranoid or Random, as opposed to Sane, and that these PMs might give an idea for what sanity you are."


D2 you were Town and I was insane or paranoid.   Today I'm sane and you're a miller.


I believe I'm done now.

@Everyone

Please read my argument against Webadict, particularly his claim and how it works with how he argued with me before.

If there is a flaw in my argument, please show it so I can make my statements more clear or reassess my stance.

If you find that I make sense and you aren't sure, please post to web with your question or accusation so that you can be sure one way or the other.

If you find my argument sound and have no further questions, then please vote for webadict and let's finish this day.

... So... instead of trying to scumhunt, we should, in fact, care about what alignment you are?

You're being ridiculous. I was pretty sure you were Paranoid, and so it didn't matter that I was a Miller. I figured I'd make a note about it and move on, because I don't care.

Heck, I'm still pretty sure you're a random Cop, because there's five Cops, and they're likely all different alignments. Gotta go though.