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[Nakar]

I was reading up recently on aluminum (or aluminium if you prefer) and realized that bauxite is one ore you WON'T find in the mountain. It seems like aluminum would make for an interesting metal, one which might due to its light weight be capable of being formed into some objects which are normally available only from wood (specifically, I was thinking of aluminum bedframes and aluminum bins).

Another possibility is the creation of mirrors using clear/crystal glass and aluminum, which dwarves might use to admire themselves and whatnot. You might also be able to create alum to use as an astringent for treating wounds if medics/doctors are ever added. It's too soft for weapons but it might make very valuable armor (not for its defensive properties, but as a sort of high-value ceremonial armor).

Of course, aluminum production is somewhat beyond the scale of dwarven production, since they don't have electrolysis. They are, however, capable of working with magma. Is it possible, perhaps, that a dwarven scientist might stumble upon a way to refine aluminum through a somewhat viable process?

I was thinking perhaps the Alchemist noble might be the sort of dwarf to figure out this process and, like the Dungeon Master adds the ability to work with Electrum, might enable the creation of aluminum as a high-end craft metal.

It's just a thought. Large-scale industrial production of aluminum would probably not make a whole lot of sense. Although perhaps it could exist - rarely - in its natural form, where it would be worth a fortune.

[Toady One]

The Dungeon Master allowing electrum (and electrum and platinum as currencies) is just a DND joke.  It doesn't take anything particularly crafty to make electrum as far as I know, and the first electrum coins are very old.

[Angela Christine]

Crafts?  If you find a way to get aluminum in a "mideval" setting you use it to make the finest weapons and armor the world has ever known.  Don't let aluminum foil fool you into thinking aluminum is flimsy, aluminum has an excellent strength to weight ratio.  It sort of depends on what sources you look at and exactly what alloys and applications they are using, but some sources say aluminum can be 1/3 the weight and 1/3 the strength of steel, others say it can be the same strength as steel at 1/10th the weight.  Aluminum alloyed with copper is used for truck wheels, truck suspension components, and aircraft fuselage.  Alloyed with zinc it is used in airframe structures and high-strength forgings -- finally a use for all that saphralite!  

It's light, it's strong, and it doesn't rust.  It's the next best thing to mithril.  If they had found a way to produce aluminum in the middle ages, there totally would have been knights in shining aluminum armor.

[bbb]

it doesn't "rust" because it's rusted already!

[Seryntas]

Aluminum oxide, otherwise known as ruby, is the substance that holds aircraft together.  It's one of the strongest substances known, something like #3 after diamonds and something else I can't remember.

[PotatoEngineer]

Aluminum is strong, but it isn't as hard as weapon-grade steel; it would probably make decent armor (if slightly bulkier, to make up for its lack of hardness and somewhat lower strength), but it fails as a weapon.  It doesn't have the heft to make a good mace (though it would probably work more-or-less okay), and it doesn't have the hardness to hold an edge.  Aluminum is better as a structural material, where the stresses are both more uniform and largely internal (as opposed to the forces found in combat, which occur primarily at the contact point).

[ November 02, 2006: Message edited by: PotatoEngineer ]

[Mechanoid]

More materials to build with are always nice.

Also, there were aluminum objects in the Medieval period in Europe... They were more expensive then gold, silver, or steel items of the same quality and type.

[Seryntas]

Aluminum was more precious than gold until well into the 1800s, I believe.  The aluminum cap of the Washington Monument was quite a big deal at the time it was built.

[Devastator]

Pure Aluminum is quite weak, while alloyed Aluminum can be strong, it is quite difficult enough that they can even make Aluminum at all.

First, no regular coke smelters for you!  Magma smelter at the very minimum.

Second, most ingredients in the Deville process are a bit different from normal ones already in DF.

Sodium Carbonate.  Potassium Carbonate (Perlash) wouldn't be unbelivable, and is already in DF.  So far so good.

The problem rests with the next steps, which involve dissolving Potassium Aluminate, (Which I can't guarantee works) in Sodium Hydroxide.  This doesn't exist in DF, and you would have to use vials for the rest of the process.. which relegates it to the Alchemy Workshop.

While not being impossible, it would not be easy.

[bbb]

eh.. NaOH is sort of in the game already.. lye.. though i'm guessing it's KOH instead.. seeing as you make potash from that lye

don't suppose it'll do as a substitute?

[Maximus]

Doing a little reading up of my own, I see that aluminum wasn't produceable in quantity until the modern era, with the development of electrolytic processes.

I'd be curious to consider what uses the dwarves might have for lead, though -- considering galena is actually a lead ore containing traces of silver.

[Devastator]

Yes, I suppose that would work.  The thing is, you're not done yet.  After dissolving it, you then purify the metal through a few steps.  For simplicity, lets say you don't need anything more than the lye.  After that, you get your perlash back, and you are left with a nugget of Alumina.

Yes Alumina.  All that was just to turn Bauxite into Aluminum Oxide.

It now needs to be converted into Aluminum Chloride, and I'm not certain the best way to show that.  After you have the Aluminum Chloride, back to the smelter you go, where you then use metallic sodium, which is then, in a somewhat dangerous process, used in a replacement reaction to produce Aluminum Metal.  Plus, you have to remove all the water from the Aluminum Chloride crystals, even the hydrated ones, with high temperatures.  That bit shouldn't be too hard for Dwarves.

To make things even worse, I believe it is practically impossible to produce Sodium metal without electrolysis.  I don't know of a way to do that.

So unless you want to go into electrolysis, I say nay to Aluminum.  There is a reason why it wasn't developed from antiquity.

As for mirrors, why not just use Silver?  And I'm pretty certain Toady doesn't want to see beds made of something other than wood.. even mighty Adamantium can not be used to make a bed.

[ November 03, 2006: Message edited by: Devastator ]

[20,000leeks]

Not to mention that adamantium seems to be a  catch-all for modern conveniences that simply aren't possibly by DF technological means. I say seems to be since I... *cough* haven't got that far yet.

From what I hear, though, it's a strong, lightweight metal (aluminium, steel/carbon alloys, titanium, carbon fibre, etc) and it can be woven into thread (synthetic fibres including but not limited to kevlar).

Since these things really are considerably beyond their time - look at how difficult it is to make steel in comparison - it's no wonder that adamantium is difficult to find. Thus, a new metal that's superior in any aspect to steel would have to be limited in quantity. That's not to say I'm against the idea - I think more metals means more specialisation which means more interesting dwarfery - just that if aluminium is introduced, it will probably need to be very, very difficult to come by. Meaning you could probably buy an entire human city with one aluminium sword kind of rare.

[Disruptive Idiot]

Like it was said before, Aluminum sucks for armor and weapons, but it would be excellent for objects and buildings.

It think the fact that it's only feasible via electrolysis lends itself to be a function of the alchemist's workshop. Perhaps make it a possibility after you get the Alchemist noble: He teaches your alchemists the secret of electrolysis under the guise of magic or something like that.

[ricree]

quote:Originally posted by Seryntas:
<STRONG>Aluminum was more precious than gold until well into the 1800s, I believe.  The aluminum cap of the Washington Monument was quite a big deal at the time it was built.</STRONG>

I've also heard that Napoleon had a set of Aluminum silverware that was reserved for extremely special guests.