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[The Dog Delusion]

Okay, so for a while, I've been toying with the idea of building a full-size aquarium. Not the glass cage type, but a full-room aquarium.

The plan: build two rooms adjacent to each other, separated by a clear glass wall. Then, seal off one side and re-route the local river through it, so as to create a "living aquarium" space where the local fishy wildlife may swim through at their leisure, viewable by dwarves who are on the other side of the glass wall.

Question: I know that dwarves can see through glass windows, but can they also see through glass walls? I realize that in my current plan (the "wildlife window" setup) dwarves would probably not get happy thoughts from just seeing the wild-and-free fish that happen to swim by, but I'd still like to know for future potential projects.


Other ideas:
- A glass-walled drowning chamber for caged enemies - dwarves get to watch as goblins get tossed into the drink! However the more elven-hearted dwarves may flee the scene in terror before any actual drowning ensues. ("Urist McDwarf cancels View Drowning: interrupted by goblin")
- A glass-walled pond, with captured fish in it. Can also function as the before-mentioned drowning chamber.
- A glass -walled pit. Dwarves get to watch from the bottom level as falling goblins splatter the pavement. It's kinda like Gallagher...for dwarves. The thought of dwarves seeing this through already blood-splattered windows gives me a happy thought.
- A glass-walled jail/starvation chamber. Not exactly good for the fort's happy thoughts, but allowing jailed dwarves to slowly starve to death in full view of public may give the fort that extra sadistic edge that I'm looking for. Not that watching goblins drown/splatter for sport isn't sadistic already.


But back to my Big Question: can dwarves see through glass walls, or does glass function like any other building material when made into walls?

[Argonnek]

Walls, no matter the building material, are completely opaque to your dwarves. You can, however, just imagine your dwarves looking through the wall at the unfortunate deaths of your enemies/prisoners by placing a meeting area next to the wall. If you use windows instead, you run the risk of constant cancellation messages and the possible escape of the occupants of the chamber.

[Shade-o]

Walls are opaque, but even windows won't do much good unless you place some artifact furniture right on the other side. Windows can be destroyed by some enemies, and of course dwarves will flee if they can see an enemy.

Another thread discussed having an underwater dwarf city made of glass, with windows at points along the outside. It was pointed out that the Dwarves could be enjoying a kegstand when a shark plows through the side of the fortress, causing the ocean to flood in.

I would recommend having a floor over a pond, with grates interspersed. Under the floor is a mass of tamed cave crocodiles. This would let you dispose of your prisoners, have a nice aquarium feature, and not interrupt too much.

[CursedBurger]

Disregard the above! Build beautiful windows, make dwarves happy, and risk losing a dwarf or twenty to (what else) carp invasions.

Why were you going with walls instead of windows, anyway?

[Warlord255]

I've always wanted to build an underwater fort with windows... as well as a series of floodgate failsafes. A pressure plate right in front of the window connected to a one-way drop switch, which is in turn connected to a floodgate on the outside of the window.

[Jetsquirrel]

im working on it now

somewhere here was a genius idea how to seal it off and build and collapse it

[Saber Cherry]

I also vote to go ahead and build it, just with glass windows, not glass walls.

Incidentally...  I've had some problems of my own with aquariums.  I still don't know how to move fish around, since they air-drown.  Is there some secret to it?  I've caged three carp (which is really not easy), and they were happy and healthy in wooden cages, oddly enough. 

The first one, I tried to transfer to an aquarium.  A dwarf took it out of the cage, and immediately the carp bit and killed him, then air-drowned in 1/7 water (IIRC).

The second one, I changed the init file to make carp tamable.  Then built its cage in a room with a kennel, flooded the entire room to depth 2, and ordered the carp tamed.  It became tame.  Then, I ordered it placed in an aquarium.  Soon after being placed in the aquarium, it drowned.  Ironically, if you have a goblin in a terrarium and change it to an aquarium, the goblin will NOT drown, even after water is added.

The third carp, I am just leaving in a wooden, air-filled cage in 7/7 water, because I don't know what else to do with it.

So I don't know if filling an aquarium with fish is really possible unless you have the stream constantly flowing through it.

[The Dog Delusion]

Why were you going with walls instead of windows, anyway?

Well, I like the idea of one, giant window, rather than the alternating wall-window-window-wall layout that actual windows would require. Also, as pointed out, windows are susceptible to the [buildingdestroyer] creatures. I suppose the impending doom of using actual windows does make it an attractive idea in its own way...

So yeah, building walls of glass would not only mean one uniform surface, but additional safety (except in the case of enemies falling 10+ z-levels, in which case I was just looking forward to blood-spattered windows) Perhaps I'll make it an open-air ground floor, so that the dwarves can actually be splashed with the remains of the unfortunate, plummeting souls as they meet their doom upon the smooth, cold floors of the fortress. I could even construct it so that there's still one additional floor below, so that the dwarves can watch from a rim that is one above the bottom floor, and then the bottom floor could be not only a hard surface, but also (through dwarfy use of levers and pumps) could double as a drowning pool (that enemies fall 10+ z-levels into). Hell, I could even install a bank of spike traps for any that aren't putting on a good show. Or for any pointy-eared diplomats that happen to wander in.

Also, I am completely aware that if dwarves could actually see the enemies (regardless of that enemy being mere microseconds from a 20 z-level crash-landing), they would flee. That's part of what makes it so wonderful and dwarfy - I like to think that no dwarf's daily routine is complete without fleeing in horror as an enemy's internal organs are splashed across the pavement, and probably gunking up the beautiful engravings on the floors and walls (The children can clean it up after the show is over). Perhaps by making it open-air (ie forgoing the windows entirely) the added bonus of dwarves living with chunks of goblin clotting their beards will counter-balance the lack of window-splashing.

[Firnagzen]

(b)uild the cage in your aquarium, using the tab menu to specify the exact cage with the carp in it. (It will show up as crap carp cage or something.) Link it to a lever. Flood the aquarium, pull the lever.

For bonus points, you could build an airlock so you can remove the mechanism and cage after the carp is free.

[Tryptic]

I would like to point out that creatures in aquarium cages don't drown, if that's something that amuses you.
I like to put goblins in terrariums, and then fill them with water. 
Sort of the exact opposite of a room full of water with creatures.  Put a room full of aquariums, then fill THAT room with water.  Prevents drowning AND job cancellations AND window breaking.  The only drawback is you can no longer admire them.

[Shima]

I learned that using windows anywhere an animal or enemy can get to it - while awesome looking - is a bad idea.

For instance, in a fort long ago, I built a magma moat with a nice glass tunnel entrance.  Now, obviously, I put in a failsafe (A perma-locking raising bridge with pressure plates; any lava gets in, it closes).  What I DIDN'T predict, was the enemy breaking the INNER side of it.  Lava comes in, melts the bridge, everyone dies as the whole place floods and everyone goes nuts.

In short: it was FUN!

[MrFake]

Well, I like the idea of one, giant window, rather than the alternating wall-window-window-wall layout that actual windows would require.

Why does it need to alternate walls and windows?  It's not a requirement that windows be built next to walls.

[Mohreb el Yasim]

make fishies tameble, and non-building destroyer and then you can let your dwarfes wach friendly tamed carps and other fishies in the aquarium ... how to tame a fish? by lurkin' on this forum, the answere you will find ...

[The Dog Delusion]

Well, I like the idea of one, giant window, rather than the alternating wall-window-window-wall layout that actual windows would require.

Why does it need to alternate walls and windows?  It's not a requirement that windows be built next to walls.

Ah, I see. That was a misunderstanding on my part - I thought it needed a support wall like a door. Thanks for the heads up!

[LeoLeonardoIII]

The wiki suggests that windows do not act as wall support for nearby doors. So you couldn't place a wall - window - door - window - wall. I haven't tried that yet myself.