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[Exponent]

If the universe is in fact infinite, then there must be infinite matter and space right ? since space is just the measure of the position of matter relative to eachother right? so if there is space there is matter, and if there's infinite matter there is an infinite number of you (as stated before).................this is mindbending shit : D

Gottfried Leibniz would likely agree with the first part of your assessment.  Then again, Leibniz's metaphysical scheme was pretty crazy.

Isaac Newton, on the other hand, would have definitely disagreed.  For him, space really truly existed, with or without matter.

Now a lot has happened in physics since the time of those two, but this disagreement at least highlights that either view is potentially reasonable to hold, and it isn't immediately obvious which is true.  For more info, check out the Leibniz-Clarke correspondence.

As for the final assumption, that if there is infinite matter, that their is an infinite repetition of everything in existence, I believe I can provide some reasons for why that is not correct.

First, let's start with a simple theoretical universe.  It is infinite in both size and matter, and consists entirely of particles that are identical to each other in all but position and movement.  Let us further suppose that due to various laws placed on these particles, that there exist only 100 different ways in which the number and arrangement of particles can occur within any given cubic meter of space.  We might be tempted to presume that each of these 100 different arrangements must occur an infinite number of times.  After all, even if the universe were only 101 cubic meters in size, at least one of the patterns must occur more than once.  However, what if only 3 of the 100 different arrangements are repeated, are repeated infinitely, and the other 97 arrangements happen a finite number of times, or maybe even only once?  There is no mathematical contradiction here.  It is only when we assign non-infinitesimal probabilities to the occurence of each pattern that they must all occur infinitely often.  But there is nothing that rules out the possibility of infinitesimal but greater-than-zero probabilities in a universe that is infinite in space and matter.

If we expand our universe some by allowing an infinite number of arrangements within any finite piece of space, which I think is quite plausible, then it becomes even more difficult to guarantee and infinite reoccurrence of everything.  The infinitey of matter must be of a higher cardinality than the infinity of possible arrangements.  (For example, consider the quantity of real numbers compared to the quantity of integers.  There are infinitely many more real numbers than there are integers, even though there is an infinite quantity of both.)  And here is an example of why I consider this possibility to be quite plausible:  Within some cubic meters of space, there might be only two particles, and the only relevant relation they have to each other is distance.  And if the position of a particle is measured using real numbers, then there will be an infinite number of distances which are possible between two particles.  So let us consider a universe where every single cubic meter contains only two particles, but where for each of these cubic meters, a different distance occurs.  No relation of particles ever occurs twice, even though there are an infinite number of them, and this is possible primarily because the infinity of possible distances and the infinity of space/matter are of equal magnitude.  We'd have to increase the latter magnitude to get away from this possibility, and here my knowledge of mathematics starts to get quite fuzzy.  I have a hard time imagining the infinity of space/matter as being larger than the infinity of the real numbers.  But regardless, even if that is doable, we still have the same problem we had above, such that some patterns in the universe may occur only once or only a finite number of times, while the rest repeat themselves infinitely in order to fill the infinity of space.

TL;DR:  An infinity of space/time does not guarantee an infinite repetition of every single pattern found in the universe, though such a universe is not logically ruled out either.

[Neruz]

You may notice that the statement was 'anything with a finite probability of occuring will occur infinitely'

An infinitesimal is not finite.


Also; there may not be an infinite number of distances between the two particles; Planck lengths would come into play.

[Exponent]

You may notice that the statement was 'anything with a finite probability of occuring will occur infinitely'

An infinitesimal is not finite.

Granted.  I suppose my point should have been to highlight that something does not have to have a finite probability in order to occur at least once.  For example, I don't necessarily believe that my existence/occurence has a finite probability, but that does not rule out my existence, as I may have a greater-than-zero but infinitesimal probability of existing.  It seems to me as though it would be very hard to argue that anything has a finite, rather than infinitesimal, probability.  Arguing that things have a greater-than-zero probability, on the other hand, is obviously trivial.

Also; there may not be an infinite number of distances between the two particles; Planck lengths would come into play.

In our actual universe, and assuming we have our theoretical physics figured out accurately enough.  But the concept can be expanded in different ways.  For example, consider arrangements among groups of three particles.  They will naturally form a triangle, but there are an infinite number of possible triangles, based on all the various possible angles.  As far as I know, there is no such thing as a Planck angle.  And I'm admittedly ignoring issues of relativity, most notably the problems with the notion of simultaneity.  But I have a gut feeling that such issues would only complicate matters, but in the end would not eliminate critical forms of real-number continuity in the universe.  Even quantized energy, Planck length/time, and all that don't seem to me to be able to fully eliminate real-number continuity.  But maybe I'm just not thinking hard enough.  :-/

As for why I'm sitting here typing all of this, it is probably because I am bored off my ass working as a lab assistant, eagerly awaiting that moment when the clock hits 20:00 and I can leave.  But who cares, you all have provided me with an amusing distraction from my boredom.  Thanks!   

[Neruz]

There are still an only finite number of locations that the 3 particles can occupy in relation to each other though, as defined by Planck lengths; there's alot of locations, oh god there's alot, but it's finite.


Take a grid 10 Planck units in length and width for example, and lets say for the sake of simplicity that each particle occupies a block 1 planck length in length and width (they don't, but it's easier this way). There are only so many combinations of particles in that grid, there's alot, but it's finite.

In reality that grid is rediculously huge even for 1mm x 1mm square, and even the smallest particles are alot of planck lengths in width, but even though the number is massive, it's still finite.

[Moose Fisher]

Moose fisher, that story you found was pure genius.  Typically the protagonists find the ruins of an ancient civilization with only a few mysterious scraps of personal culture left.  But the idea of finding a whole civilization with lots of detailed information about it, yet still completely wiped out, is intriguing.  So yeah, epic rocketmurdered

It's from the same place as that story with Ashmalice.  I'm glad you liked it.

My favorite is Hyperion.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This world was named Hyperion when we found it, after both the mythological titan and the fact that the captain of the ship that discovered it was a fan of a late twentieth century author who used it for some reason or another.

The world itself seemed to be mostly desert, but not in the death-world sense we had found elsewhere. More a desert in just calmness, an absence. There were a few shallow seas with fertile land around them, but still, mostly just barren, austere desert. The geo-scientists said that this should not have happened, but hey, it was hard to argue with fact. It wasn't till we landed that we found them.

Every few meters, across the entire desert, there were white, plastic protuberances. We set down next to one and started hitting it with sonar, turns out it was hollow, but there was no real door. We ended up turning the ships guns on it and blasted the thing down. First people in the hole went down some stairs and found rows upon rows upon rows of sarcophagi, each with a body in it. The bodies were human, or at least looked it to us. One person touched one, and a light came on, we moved over to the light and a collage of pictures began to play across the screen.

t was difficult to see at first and then a scene caught my eye, it was a scene from a 2-D movie from back when, I know the movie too. A character, some kid, had just blown up a space-station. Then it changed, a war movie, men landing on a beach, carnage everywhere. The images flashed faster and faster, slaughter and death from our world's fiction over the last centuries played out on this alien tomb-screen. The final shots were of the people here, who we could plainly see were just as human as we were, in utter terror of this menace from beyond the stars.

They killed themselves in order to spare their children and their world the anguish they knew a people with such an unstoppable bloodlust would wreak upon it.

It was then that it dawned upon us, we had killed our brothers with our blind broadcasts to the sky. As far as I know, I'm the last person of that ship that's hasn't killed themselves yet.

Perhaps scenarios like these will be our 'first contact'.  After all our effort and research, shedding tears and sacrificing, humanity discovers that it's not alone, yet the universe seems even more empty.

[Sensei]

Yipes. It's a bloody greek tragedy.

[orbcontrolled]

---Stories---

Ok I give up, where are they from? If this is a book, then I want it.
That first one reads exactly like a game of DF, down to the last detail, it's amazing.

[Sensei]

I believe that was not a coincidence, although I'm too lazy to go back and look at the post.

[Draco18s]

The infinitey of matter must be of a higher cardinality than the infinity of possible arrangements.  (For example, consider the quantity of real numbers compared to the quantity of integers.  There are infinitely many more real numbers than there are integers, even though there is an infinite quantity of both.)

Aren't aleph numbers awesome?

[Moose Fisher]

---Stories---

Ok I give up, where are they from? If this is a book, then I want it.
That first one reads exactly like a game of DF, down to the last detail, it's amazing.

When you have a million monkeys typing on keyboards, you get some interesting stuff.
These stories?  They came from a thread on 4chan's /tg/ board.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6312668/
Don't worry, this thread is fairly clean.

[zagabar]

theoretically the universe is infinite, it has infinite space, and infinite time...that doesn't implie that it has infinite planets or infinite matter

and also, everithing that is not impossible, happens, if it doesn't happen it is because it was absolutelly impossible, probabilities are just a quantification of our ignorance, they are only on our mind, in the universe it is 0 or 1

Well. What is time and space? Does it even have meaning without matter? I would say no. Time and space being infinite is quite meaningless. It isn't by any means useful or even definable without mass (or energy, which is a conversion of mass (or vice versa, it is basically the same thing)). Space and time are just properties of mass and energy.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

theoretically the universe is infinite, it has infinite space, and infinite time...that doesn't implie that it has infinite planets or infinite matter

and also, everithing that is not impossible, happens, if it doesn't happen it is because it was absolutelly impossible, probabilities are just a quantification of our ignorance, they are only on our mind, in the universe it is 0 or 1

time and space are dimensions in wich matter can move and expand, they are infinite, i believe, but there's only a limited number of particles of matter

Well. What is time and space? Does it even have meaning without matter? I would say no. Time and space being infinite is quite meaningless. It isn't by any means useful or even definable without mass (or energy, which is a conversion of mass (or vice versa, it is basically the same thing)). Space and time are just properties of mass and energy.