Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Thes33]

That is neat!  The west coast always makes us here in the midwest look like amateurs...   We have some momentum here in Louisville, but permaculture is absent and it seems like there are still too many people who are in denial about the climate problems and scoff at the idea of a local agriculture.  But for those of us involved, we're slowly disconnected ourselves from the corporate system and really enjoying the benefits of locally produced food.  Once I finish my dissertation, and do a postdoc for two years in Europe, I hope to find some cheap land here in the states and get my own farm started...   

Until then I need to finish Fief so I can pretend.   

[ductape]

hey, Fief is cool and I hope you get through it or end up with something playable. ON the line of permaculture, I have always thought it would be awesome and educational to have a sim-typoe game along the lines of sim city or such that is related to taking a piece of land, along with it's climate and soil and topographic challenges (and others) and have the game revolve around setting up a viable productive ecosystem. Granted this would profoundly complex.

I have played with two approaches. The first would be simple enough to be a game, though a very educational game that stresses the relationships of species toward a stable system, or eco-synthesis. The second approache would be to make this an actual tool for land-use designers. Involving GIS systems for semi accurate data projection of species on land, in a system. Calculation of rainfall, run-off coefficients, soil infiltration, plant growth based on climate, species interaction, yield estimates over time, soil health over time. Whoa...complex.

Imagine a land use simulator that would aid the designer in making decisions with long-term sustainability in mind.

[Zangi]

An eco-farming game?

[Thes33]

I actually wrote something to do something similar, but much simpler, for my garden... I starting writing a program to help me design my garden layout, using positive/negative plant relationships and the estimated size of adult plants to maximize the space... but I lost the code to a bad USB drive when I reformatted.   I ended up just using graph paper instead... 
   
But as far as the land-designer tool, I've dreamed of doing something like that.  A tool like that could really revolutionize site planning.  But your right... the complexity would be a pain.

[quinnr]

Keep up the good work!
If you ever did something like that, I'd love to see it, BTW.

[Thes33]

Here's the update: 
    I added the text area with scrolling messages to keep player's informed about their doings.  I implemented a system for choosing directions or locations in conjunction with other actions.  Got most of the ground work for chopping trees in there, but quite a bit more to go, such as skill handling, and object formation. 

   New screenshot on the dev page:
            http://www.arboreantears.com/fief/

[Tilla]

Good times! Although I think it MIGHT get old fast to display a message for every time you move

[Thes33]

Too true...  but I want lots of messages while I'm testing  .   I'll probably have it not repeat the same message over and over again and only update when there is new information.  But eventually all messages will be set to optional.

[oidip]

Just out of interest how did you learn coding? I've always been interested in it. You said you had been doing it since 8th grade so I was where a good place to start would be (I am 14).

[Thes33]

Hehe... I actually learned how to code from the QBASIC help file on an old 386 computer my dad had pulled out of his work's garbage dumpster.  I really wanted to play some games, so I decided to make my own.  Not the best place to start for sure... 

I find Java to be a good starting language as their is plenty of support and its easy to get into.
Here's a website of an online course that I refer to often:
  http://www.particle.kth.se/~lindsey/JavaCourse/Book/courseMap.html
It's for an older version of Java, but it's still applicable. 

Otherwise, if your not interested in Java, get yourself a course-book for the language your interested in and start going through the exercises and putting code together.  Practice, practice, practice.  You'll need to be patient with yourself, as it is learning a new language and you won't be truly fluent for years to come.  After nearly 14 years of programming (6 years semi-professionally for scientific research), I'm still learning better ways of doing things.  It's as much art as science.

[oidip]

Thanks, I'm well aware it doesn't happen over night but I still want to do it. Mainly becasue there is a complex game involing evolution that I want to be made but know it never will. I'm betting I'm going to be about 30 by the time I actually start work on it. Until then I have some other more simple games in mind

[ductape]

I would like to highly recommend Processing: http://processing.org/

it's a standalone Java library thingy with lots of fun tutorials to get you going from the basics all the way up to object oriented stuff. It will get you straight into the graphics fun which is always rewarding.

[oidip]

I've been looking at the java and processing. Processing is defiantly much easier  Also my dad writes programs for circuit boards so he knows basic. I bought BlitzMax which runs on a dialect of Basic and he's going to teach me in our spare time. I haven't heard of many games made in basic but still I've been told that learning your first language is the most difficult so it will be made infinitely easier with an actual teacher.

On-topic:
How is the game going? I really like the look of it.

[Thes33]

BASIC is a good language to start on.  Good luck! 

As for Fief:
     I added mechanics for when the character is busy on a task (such as chopping down a tree), such that time flies by unless they are interrupted or you cancel the action.  I added some algorithms for skill level bonuses and bonuses from attributes (such as Strength and Endurance for tree choppin'), also the effect of the quality of the tool plays a role as well.  All of these factor into the amount of time it takes to chop down the tree and (eventually) it will determine the quality of the wood produced. 

     The way I set the skills is such that it takes about 5000 hours of work to become an expert level in any skill.  I was basing this off the idea that it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert at something.  This seemed way too long for most of these tasks, so I halved it.  This is still 208 consecutive days of experience, and everyone needs to eat and sleep.  I have things set so that you'll gain skill levels quicker at lower levels, but require more and more time as you increase.  Skill levels range from 0 (Unskilled) to 10 (Expert), although the actual modified time (stored as a floating point) is used such that every little bit of experience helps (down to the tiniest fraction).  Each 1000 points reflects a new skill level.  In this way, progression will be very realistic, so for us used to DF, we'll find this to be tediously slow.  But this also makes that Lumberjack peasant who's been chopping trees for the past 20 years someone worth protecting.

     I spent last night looking at the effects of Skill, Attribute, and Tool bonuses on the average time to chop down a mature tree.  I'll post those here later for the number geeks.  

     For the curious, the attributes for the game will be posted later as well.  This is taken from my pen & paper RPG I've been working on for a number of years, and will also make an appearance in Endless Worlds if I ever get around to working on that game again.  It basically comes from the idea that there are three components to a person:  Body, Mind, and Spirit, being the physical, mental, and spiritual sides respectively.  By squaring these components off, you get an attribute for when each component governs another or governs itself.

     Peasants and other common folk probably will not have attributes for space-saving reasons.  They will rely upon Skills and Tools alone for improvements.  Attributes are more of a Hero/Villian aspect.  Their actual game effects are small compared to Skills (at least in most Fief tasks), but will give your character a slight edge.  They will play a much greater role in combat and diplomacy, as other Nobles, Knights, Villains, Priests, and other "named" characters will have them.  So when fighting a regular soldier, those bonuses will give you an edge, but when you face their leader in a duel, you'll find it a much more equal challenge.

[Thes33]

Okay here's the information I promised:   
  First here's the attributes:

COMPONENTS	ATTRIBUTE	DESCRIPTION
Body governs Body:	Strength	Physical prowess, raw physical force, muscle power.
Mind governs the Body:	Endurance	Physical endurance, ability to withstand physical punishment.
Spirit governs the Body:	Agility	Physical reflexiveness and ease of movement.
-----------------------------------
Body governs the Mind:	Coordination	Hand-eye coordination and manual dexterity.
Mind governs the Mind:	Intelligence	Logical and analytical ability, memory and wit.
Spirit governs the Mind:	Perception	Awareness of one's environment and the senses.
-----------------------------------
Body governs the Spirit:	Charisma	Social skill, physical-confidence.
Mind governs the Spirit:	Willpower	Mental endurance and force of will, mental confidence.
Spirit governs the Spirit:	Faith	Spiritual power, force of belief.

       
Now the numbers:
This is the time it takes (hours:minutes) to chop down a mature tree with the given parameters.
Defaults:  Tool = 1.0, Str & End = 0, Skill = 0 (e.g. an unskilled peasant with an average tool)

The effect of Tool: 
0.50 - 5:30
0.75 - 3:40
1.00 - 2:45
1.25 - 2:12
1.50 - 1:50
The quality of the tool seems to make a pretty big difference, as it should.  A copper or bronze axe pales next to a steel axe.  But the modifier for a tool will be affected not just by the components of the item, but by the skill of the smith who crafts them.

The effect of Attribute (the average of STR and END in this case for Logging): 
00 - 2:45
02 - 1:46
05 - 1:09
07 - 0:56
10 - 0:44
Seems like large effects, but raising attributes is not an easy thing.  10 is a godly score for sure.  With 9 attributes to raise, your character isn't likely to devote them to a single score.  But there will be more discussion in the future on how experience and leveling and such will work.

The effect of Skill:
00000 - 2:45
02000 - 0:55
05000 - 0:27
07000 - 0:20
10000 - 0:15
Skill level, as you can see, has the largest effect (as it probably should).  An expert woodcutter peasant with a moderate tool can lay waste to a forest quickly.  I particularly like how there is a large increase in performance in the beginning as the peasant learns the basic skills and doesn't screw up as much, but then once you reach a moderate skill level your only shaving a couple minutes off the time learning minute details related to the skill.

Anyway... back to coding