Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Randall Octagonapus]

ok so I like a lot of other poeple know that during world gen it is almost impossible to get more than a few megabeasts to survive unless you mod their size to atleast 50

So I was thinking maybe megabeasts could get three strikes

So say a Titan dies, then his corpse could turn into a zombie Titan. Then maybe he dies again, then his zombie corpse could rot a while and then become a skeletal Titan. If a megabeast gets to skeletal and dies then it could be dead for good.

[Neonivek]

The megabeasts are being fixed next release so for a most part most of them should survive.

The Bronze Collosus went from being a joke in world gen back to being almost unbeatable.

[G-Flex]

Yeah. Honestly, the OP's idea sounds like a really artificial and weird fix to a problem that's being solved anyway, and the fix wouldn't even apply in the next version. After all, how do you make skeletons out of things with essentially no bones, and how do you handle good-aligned creatures?

Really, the solution to getting megabeasts to survive is making them stronger, which is already being done. No reason to shoehorn in any sort of stopgap measure.

[Draco18s]

This is the zombie skeletal giant eagle Burd Brain of Terror.
This is the skeletal giant bronze colossus Tin Can of Shiny Horror.

[Pilsu]

Worldgen combat probably doesn't incorporate the tissue layers that are supposed to make them invincible

[G-Flex]

You're right, because tissue layers don't exist yet.

In the next version they'll HAVE to incorporate that, because that's the way combat will fundamentally work. Not taking into account tissue layers means never knowing what actually happens, ever, unless you abstract it to a degree that we know doesn't happen. In fact, it would be even worse to do that then than now, because we'll have battle scars and stuff.

[Capntastic]

Ah yes, let's make it so megabeasts bend the rules for no real reason.   

Instead of fixing the underlying problem of them getting off'd too easily in Worldgen.

Because Dwarf Fortress is all about abstracting away realism and creating 'quick fixes' that make little sense within the game world.

[Euld]

Why not have both?  Stronger megabeasts to survive world gen + three chances to survive death? 

Certain "organic" megabeasts that die in evil biomes (and only evil) could come back as zombies and again as skeletons if their wounds wouldn't prevent them from existing as such.  Like being beheaded would prevent the megabeast from coming back as a zombie, but a lucky shot to the heart or brain would allow them another chance to seek revenge after some time to decompose.

Revenge is a dish best served cold, is it not?

[Pilsu]

In the next version they'll HAVE to incorporate that, because that's the way combat will fundamentally work. Not taking into account tissue layers means never knowing what actually happens, ever, unless you abstract it to a degree that we know doesn't happen. In fact, it would be even worse to do that then than now, because we'll have battle scars and stuff.

Well, it's currently handled really poorly (kobolds biting off colossus legs), I see no reason it'd suddenly be simulated in more depth. Would take a lot of time to simulate all fights with the actual mechanics

[Cruxador]

Why not have both?  Stronger megabeasts to survive world gen + three chances to survive death? 

Certain "organic" megabeasts that die in evil biomes (and only evil) could come back as zombies and again as skeletons if their wounds wouldn't prevent them from existing as such.  Like being beheaded would prevent the megabeast from coming back as a zombie, but a lucky shot to the heart or brain would allow them another chance to seek revenge after some time to decompose.

Revenge is a dish best served cold, is it not?

That would be tough to implement, and thus probably won't happen until after spheres, because undead will be sphere dependent. However, I support this notion.

In the next version they'll HAVE to incorporate that, because that's the way combat will fundamentally work. Not taking into account tissue layers means never knowing what actually happens, ever, unless you abstract it to a degree that we know doesn't happen. In fact, it would be even worse to do that then than now, because we'll have battle scars and stuff.

Well, it's currently handled really poorly (kobolds biting off colossus legs), I see no reason it'd suddenly be simulated in more depth. Would take a lot of time to simulate all fights with the actual mechanics

There's a lot of problems with that statement. In no particular order:

1. The old worldgen used the old combat. The old combat no longer works. The new combat, on the other hand, does.
2. simulating things in more depth is generally what's added in updates.
3. Specifically, simulating combat in more depth (and wounds and bodies and medicine) is the main addition in this update. This extremely long update.
4. If Toady had coded up another type of combat specifically for worldgen, he would have told us. However, he has told us nothing of the sort.
4. Toady has had no time to code up something like that
5. coding something like that would only simplify worldgen, making it less accurate. This is counter to every other change Toady has made ever.
6. Worldgen is supposed to take a long time anyway. You're generating an entire world. It's also not designed o be something you have to do frequently, upon completion.

There are more reasons, I'm sure, but that should be enough.

[cephalo]

ok so I like a lot of other poeple know that during world gen it is almost impossible to get more than a few megabeasts to survive unless you mod their size to atleast 50

So I was thinking maybe megabeasts could get three strikes

So say a Titan dies, then his corpse could turn into a zombie Titan. Then maybe he dies again, then his zombie corpse could rot a while and then become a skeletal Titan. If a megabeast gets to skeletal and dies then it could be dead for good.

It's true that this fix isn't needed, but the fun part of this suggestion is the dying and coming back to life. I think it shouldn't happen every time, but if it happened sometimes it would be cool. There would have to be some random fictional reason for it to happen though.

[darkflagrance]

I'm in favor of this, not to fix any issues, but for the stories that can result: Dragon killed the heir of a dwarven civ. The dwarven ruler kills the dragon, but the dragon is later resurrected as a zombie, counterkills the ruler and destroys the civ, and then goes on to raid the humans before hibernating in a cave, and then telling his twisted tale to the adventurer.