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[alfie275]

How about the ability to fire ANYTHING? Any creature or item.

[Neonivek]

How about the ability to fire ANYTHING? Any creature or item.

Id think it would seriously mess with the aim.

[Atarlost]

This is Dwarf Fortress.  Mere trebuchets are for humans.  We need massive mobile iron faced catapult towers so expensive that melting them down and selling the scrap can pay for the construction of a megaproject. 

[Foa]

This is Dwarf Fortress.  Mere trebuchets are for humans.  We need massive mobile iron faced catapult towers so expensive that melting them down and selling the scrap can pay for the construction of a megaproject. 

Hmm, a war siege tower, complete with four catapults, and escorted by three siege buggies... that would be the day I'll make a moving castle that has a vehicular attack squad and attack the world, and then settle down to create a land ship armada to attack the underground.

[HatfieldCW]

I'd like to see a 3x1 siege engine, so we can line them up more densely and really rain fire on those invaders.

[Euld]

The large wheeled platform is called a siege tower. They're dangerous, but very vulnerable to fire since they had to be made out of wood (metal was too expensive/heavy, stone was too brittle to build mobile towers out of) and moved incredibly slowly. Flaming arrows wouldn't light them on fire, but pouring boiling oil onto them could turn them from siege weapon to deathtrap.

About the only fire-based attack we've got is magma flooding, so using something like this would be pretty useful against a dwarf fortress.  Unless the dwarves invent molotov cocktails or something.

[CobaltKobold]

When I saw the topic, all I could think of were fortresses built exclusively for the purpose of ammunition.

BEING ammunition.

[Neruz]

We should go all Mortal Engines on the Elves, just strap the entire Fortress to tank treads and away we go!

[LordDemon]

I don't know if siege engines need to make more damage, but a area of effect would be nice.

Catapults could, instead of firing a single man size boulder fire dozens of fist size stones. Loading these could take a bit longer, and range is much less, but a hail of stones against a goblin group would be much more useful then single big bolder.

Of course, bigger versions could have bigger loads, so instead of firing dozen stones like normal catapult, the larger catapult will fire 30 stones.
I'd love to see a modified ballista, that fires 25 arrows on one go. Great for tunnel defense against mass infantry.

Also, the smaller, operator movable scorpion type weapon, that would fire javelins. That would be good use between the "light" crossbow and heavy ballista. Good for trolls, etc. big beasts.

I wonder if oil is going to become present in DW? It did have it's use before machines were common, mostly in lamps. Making burn traps would be a great alternative to flooding the attackers with magma.

[Neruz]

I'm thinking DF needs moar Greek Fire!

Alternately; weaponised magma pots. Either one works.

[BlazingDav]

We could just say size of a Siege engine also determines its practical abilities

For example with ballista and catapults, bigger ones could have useful practical abilities, such as being able to fire in any direction it pleases like a crossbow dwarf =P

Naturally if an enemy appeared with lots of trebuchets any castle would be screwed, so there should be larger stationary siege engines that can only really be built in an established settlement, they of course with dwarven engineering would have a greater range, turn ability, target multiple z-levels, also, accuracy, with some mechanics across the map with mini weather stations built *preferably out of reach of the hordes*, larger siege engines could make use of these and pin point their shots making them as lethal as they deserve, naturally slower firing time for more complicated shots is natural.

Also with the siege towers, they really arent that practical in DF, while mounting onto walls is good, that is simply countered by building taller walls (or ones that simply force the enemy into somewhere they can't get out of without retreating, even ladders would end up with their limits as they would eventually need siege engines as tall as the walls to put ladders on them. More 'realistic' approaches would be flying mounts, wall climbing siege engines *all terrain buggy*, digging under the walls, or just get through the wall be it by creating a portal through it, blowing a hole in it, or just walking through it *ghosts!*, though ballista propelled grappling hooks are always possible

Though this will simply force all to retreat into the mountain if it gets too hectic where siege engines are selectively taken out along with the infantry by clever defenses. Though then this is DF  =P though irony being with updates ahead that may just mean running into more danger

Either way as defenders practically dwarves should always be able to do more and so will almost always outwit their enemies somehow before they get themselves killed, unless overpowered quite literally

[Funk]

maybe the bigger siege engines can be made to shoot qicker based on power level so that the crew just load the ammo and shoot.
i.e. Polybolos http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/RepCatapult.htm

[Starver]

Currently, Siege Engines are probably more accurately "Anti-Siege Engines".  Static.  Unless you're embarking right next to a settlement that you wish to take on, militarily, it is only when besieged (or, to be honest, when anything from a marmocet to luckless kobold a comes trolling across your Field Of Fire) when the Engines come into their own.

Maybe when you can wander off-map with a small army (in nominally Fortress mode) to stem the tide of goblins at source, a catapult composing of the three catapult parts, a couple of axles and maybe a mechanism for good measure might, either carried off in bits or towed by a tame elephant/couple of stout oxen/a whole string of ponies could be just what the doctor ordered...

I don't know if the only real reason why siege engines can only be 'aimed' along the orthagonals is down to the awkwardness of depicting them facing at any other angle (even 45°), but I see no reason why a siege engine could not have a more realistic field of fire.  And perhaps a reactive one, even a possibility of striking an enemy through actual aiming, rather than luck (and if it isn't just luck, then I'm using them wrongly!)

And I think trebuchets (would need much the same materials as a windmill, currently four logs, plus a mechanism or two for priming/releasing) would add to the menagerie of large-scale weaponry.  One of the aforementioned size would probably be a "build in place", even if you could wheel the others around, and would have a minimum and maximum range, within which a (suitable skilled) operator could reliably drop whatever was launched down onto.  Perhaps, especially if rocks, it could be made to have a cave-in effect upon the target zone, at least at the last Z-level.  Visually, there would be a 'shadow' rock travelling along the ground Z-level (up and down the contours of the land) until it reached its aimed-at (or misaimed-at) point, at which point the cave-in-code could be appropriated to give cave-in-style injuries on anyone who happened to be on that square and choking-dust effects to the nearby surroundings, with no 'ammo saving' features, like the current catapult can be exploited for.  (Could not be used in a tunnel, or would require a nod to a parabolic-style 'headroom' check along its path, at least.  But could be used over hills.)

In some ways, I'm ascribing some ideas to the trebuchet that should really be relevent to the catapult as well, but we're used to how those work, now, so it might be a revamp too much for players to accept.

The idea that there are different scales is interesting.  I'd say

• Ones of 1x1 size (a single "<foo> component") that can be manhandled around the field of battle by a kind of 'mortar team' or HMG squad, if that's not anachronistic for the attempted-for era,
• 3x3s that can, though needn't be, mounted on axles and dragged and must be assigned to be rigged/de-rigged, alongside some necessary "emplacement" designation.  Perhaps (b)uild, s(i)ege engine, (C)atapult position, and selecting as the 'building materials' a currently mobile catapult unit.  After hauling to the position (might be best to wait until Beasts Of Burden can be utilised by non-traders) the 'building' is constructed and usable as per a standard built-in-situ engine, but 'deconstructed' merely makes it mobile again (to drag to new location or allow to be brought back to a suitable designated zone/meta-stockpile when unallocated and no hostilities occur?)
• 5x5s that are purely static [de/of]fensive Engines Of War.  Trebuchet version is capable of raining multiple (3-5?) boulders down in a spread pattern (on top of the aiming), a double/triple spread of standard ballista bolts for area protection coming from the mega-ballista (c.f. 1x1 ballistas-equivalents which might fire a spread of 5-7 crossbow-type bolts into a group of hostiles in one shot, but at the expense of the 'crew' protecting themselves) and something equally relevant for the catapult version.  But at the expense of time to build and immobility (possibly even no rotational component, aside from a 45°-each way arc of fire, after having designated the directon it should face).

Note that I'd expect "Vile Forces Of Darkness!" to be capable of at least capturing your equipment (the operators would run away) and maybe even bring in 3x3 mobile weapons of their own.  Mobile siege towers might be their preserve only (after all, if the dwarves were taking the fight to others, they wouldn't be 'below' using sappers' tunnels instead of siege towers) but, for the sake or argument, would consist of the same components that make a 3x3 mobile (or just the components of a wagon) plus a number of units of material (mainly wood, some metal?) for the walls and the stairs and a 1x1 ramp (i.e. bridge).  The heavier the components, the slower it should travel/more troops/operators/slaves/animals it needs to get it into position.  Maybe it could be constructed (off-map?) in response to a particular need, if the software agents behind the hostiles can be asked to work out what height wall/cliff they'd like to be able to climb over, and thus larger and slower moving) towers could arrive in response to your having a 4-high defensive wall with fortifications that you were hoping would rain bolts down on everyone from.  If the ramps(/bridges) of the tower were capable of copying their standard built cousins and atom-smashing at least Fortifications, once brought within range, then it would add a dimension to defence not heresofar necessary to consider.

But the above is a massive amount of change, a stream of consciousness more than a focussed idea, just there to dip into.  (As long as when you dip in you grab the balancing aspects, so the overpowered items are more difficult to make/keep/use as well as more dominating when they are in use...)

[Myroc]

As stated earlier, i think that a larger siege engine should be able to fire more ammunition at a given time than their smaller counterparts.

[Funk]

so bigger weapons same time more missles or same number of missles per shot but shoot qicker.

a 5x5 ballista being 2 3x3 ballistas linked up to shoot qicker.

catapults get longer ranges and can shoot more missles per shot.
useing set stone as ammo
seting fire to the ammo(bruning Lignite) or just load it with junk