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[Savarin]

Not a very complicated suggestion, I just tire of my legendary mason stopping work on furniture to go build a wall when I have an small force of peasants to do it.  (For the record, my masonry workshops are set to Novice-Legendary so the peasants don't try to express their creativity.)

Construction would just be a new labor toggle that covers...well, constructions.

Masonry would be specifically what's done at a mason's workshop.

[alfie275]

Or how about using the stonecrafting skill at a masons workshop?

[HatfieldCW]

Something needs to be done about this, for sure.  You've got the guys making blocks in the sweatshop, the guys stacking the blocks into defensive walls and penis-shaped buildings and then there are the three highly skilled workers who produce high-quality doors, tables and floodgates for use in the penis-shaped building.  You don't want the experts wasting their time on mundane tasks.

Like you say, current workshop preferences allow you to keep the morons away from the important jobs, but nothing's keeping that legendary +5 stoneworker from slumming it with the grunts.

See also the important distinction between manufacturing mechanisms and installing mechanisms and between building wooden beds and building wooden staircases.

[Bricks]

I have the same gripe.  It actually puts me off dwarf mode (that and managing > 15 dwarves).

In the next version, burrows will help fix this problem considerably.  I still agree that construction should be a separate job.  Perhaps Masons sould look at constructions and approve them, much like an architect, and then construction workers can do the actual hauling and spend the time building.  As long as the Mason didn't spend long on each construction, it would be a pretty fair time burden.

[Dante]

I'm sure Toady mentioned somewhere that there was some rehashing to be done of the entire concept.

I can't find it in the devlog or suggestions threads, but it went something like this (note that I'm probably projecting my own wishes to fill in the details):

(I) It makes sense to combine architecture and masonry into one skill. Masonry means, making buildings. So does architecture (in the game). You'd need to be able to gain experience in the skill, either as architecture currently does (on some constructions), or on all constructions.
(II) At a mason's workshop, dwarves carve things out of stone. At a craftsdwarf's workshop, dwarves carve things out of stone. Some aspects of these need separating out: the merging of rock crafting and furniture making, for instance, presumably with a single associated workshop.
(III) There are other factors such as, should the new construct skill be used to make constructions out of wood, metal, etc, as well.

[KenboCalrissian]

I have the exact opposite problem; to get my megaproject built, I've enlisted ~20 newbie masons, and then when I want some actual masonry work done - like stone statues, for example - guess who goes to build them?

I know, I know, you can forbid the newbs from entering workshops... but it's kind of a hassle, and I find it weird that constructing buildings doesn't add to the masonry stat, or that the existing masonry stat doesn't seem to help the building/deconstruction speed of those buildings.

[Pilsu]

I'd split item construction into Stoneworking and leave Masonry in for when buildings get quality mods. Masonry together with Architecture would probably make walls more resistant to being destroyed

[Bricks]

I'd split item construction into Stoneworking and leave Masonry in for when buildings get quality mods. Masonry together with Architecture would probably make walls more resistant to being destroyed

Yeah, masonry skill would probably increase strength/resilience, whereas architecture should give quality modifiers.  I'm not sure how you could keep them separate and still use them on all the same constructions, though.  Something for Toady to hash out.  Perhaps architects could "finish" constructions and buildings, using material to detail and beautify.  (Like engraving, but not for raw stone walls.)

[Cruxador]

I'd split item construction into Stoneworking and leave Masonry in for when buildings get quality mods. Masonry together with Architecture would probably make walls more resistant to being destroyed

Yeah, masonry skill would probably increase strength/resilience, whereas architecture should give quality modifiers.  I'm not sure how you could keep them separate and still use them on all the same constructions, though.  Something for Toady to hash out.  Perhaps architects could "finish" constructions and buildings, using material to detail and beautify.  (Like engraving, but not for raw stone walls.)

um... do you know what architecture is? Architecture is the art of designing a building. Of sitting down and writing up the blueprints. It can't happen after the building's up. Of course, DF architects are more akin to structural engineers, doing bridges and furnaces and things. Regardless, it's planning. I would like to be able to engrave constructed walls, but that has nothing to do with architecture. I see no real problem with architecture as it is now, actually. And I don't really think making walls requires an additional skill. Though building towers and things kind of does. Perhaps architecture could be used for things not supported by natural land.

[Starver]

Multi-skill-per-task?
Familiarity with stone + familiarity with cutting tools => Suitable for making stone blocks
Familiarity with stone + familiarity with design => Suitable for making stone structures
Familiarity with stone + familiarity with carving => Suitable for making stone items

Swap "stone" w/ "wood" to get wood-block making, wooden structures and wooden decorative items.

And the above is slightly simplified over what it should be to further differentiate stone statues and wooden furniture making from stone scepters and wooden rings, respectively.

[darkrider2]

since you can build walls out of wood and metals, its not exactly masonry that is a main problem. but the addition of a construction labor/skill would be great.

[Bricks]

um... do you know what architecture is?

I'm going to assume that wasn't meant as a personal attack.

How do you define a mason, then, in the case that architecture means everything about building?  I may be misinformed, but I thought the master mason was basically the head engineer of any medieval construction project.  If anyone is the absolute planner of everything ever, its the player, not a dwarf with the architecture skill.  At the moment, all the architect skill dictates (I think) is building quality for certain structures.  Which could obviously mean a lot of things given how abstract buildings and other structures are.  If what you are saying is "nix mason skill, put it under architecture skill," then whatever, I'm not up to arguing semantics.

[Pilsu]

Yeah, masonry skill would probably increase strength/resilience, whereas architecture should give quality modifiers.  I'm not sure how you could keep them separate and still use them on all the same constructions, though.  Something for Toady to hash out.  Perhaps architects could "finish" constructions and buildings, using material to detail and beautify.  (Like engraving, but not for raw stone walls.)

Well, we could have walls and reinforced walls as separate constructions

[darkflagrance]

um... do you know what architecture is?

I'm going to assume that wasn't meant as a personal attack.

How do you define a mason, then, in the case that architecture means everything about building?  I may be misinformed, but I thought the master mason was basically the head engineer of any medieval construction project.  If anyone is the absolute planner of everything ever, its the player, not a dwarf with the architecture skill.  At the moment, all the architect skill dictates (I think) is building quality for certain structures.  Which could obviously mean a lot of things given how abstract buildings and other structures are.  If what you are saying is "nix mason skill, put it under architecture skill," then whatever, I'm not up to arguing semantics.

I guess the result of this change would be that the Mason occupation is renamed to Stoneworker or something.

[Neruz]

To be fair; Architects only design buildings, they don't actually build them (they may oversee their construction however.)

Masons are the ones who actually build stuff. Although of course now-a-days we just use 'construction workers'.