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[nil]

Pretty sure that's because they're building destroyers; there can be some weird pathfinding for that.

[jocan2003]

Ill try removing the tag and see if i still get this massive drop, because i fall from 50ish fps to barely 6-7 when treant spawn.....

[Danarca]

Auch!
Yeah I'd imagine it's building destroyer..
Sneaking creeps check at every turn to see if anyone is surrounding them to determine if they become visible, that's why they drop the FPS, I'd imagine building destroyer handles it the same way.

[jocan2003]

It was unplayabl with most of sieger having ambush killing my fps hard so i took it out from most of gang siege but kept ambush on some other like thief and such more fps now. Less surprise but oh well my comp isnt meant for heavy cpu load....

*Edit* Hell of an improvement, no more fps drop, so yeah the building destroyer give CPU a heavy workload.....

[Grendus]

Interesting mod. Much easier to start with than Dig Deeper, my miners and untrained woodcutter butchered the frogmen without really trying. I tried the same strategy with orcs... didn't work out so well.

[jocan2003]

If you get a erewolf siege, you better barricade yourself and try to shoot them from higher ground with no way for them to reach you or they will tear you appart they quick, dirty and fast and also avoid trap!! They killed multiple champion each siege, only in one ive been lucky and its in story somewhere on the forum, one champon alone managed to drive back a whole siege by himself, thanks to the trance and good skill in shield and armor!! or else.... one more champion would be in the tombs....

[darkflagrance]

If you get a erewolf siege, you better barricade yourself and try to shoot them from higher ground with no way for them to reach you or they will tear you appart they quick, dirty and fast and also avoid trap!! They killed multiple champion each siege, only in one ive been lucky and its in story somewhere on the forum, one champon alone managed to drive back a whole siege by himself, thanks to the trance and good skill in shield and armor!! or else.... one more champion would be in the tombs....

Or you could have arm a child of 12 with a sword and shield and send him out to fight them by himself...

By the way, about how much population do I need for a giant siege? I'm minimizing population to save fps, so I'm trying to achieve the bare minimum.

[jocan2003]

If i remeber right at 80 i got my first reat siege not sure tho

[Grendus]

If you get a erewolf siege, you better barricade yourself and try to shoot them from higher ground with no way for them to reach you or they will tear you appart they quick, dirty and fast and also avoid trap!! They killed multiple champion each siege, only in one ive been lucky and its in story somewhere on the forum, one champon alone managed to drive back a whole siege by himself, thanks to the trance and good skill in shield and armor!! or else.... one more champion would be in the tombs....

Comparing them to Dig Deeper orcs, they're one size larger but have 3 less damblock. They have comparable unarmed attacks: 1-7 gore from the werewolf compared with 1-6 bash from orcs. Orcs wear steel while werewolves apparently wear leather, and while orcs have a large range of crucible steel weapons werewolves have a few melee weapons. The one thing the werewolves have over the orcs is speed, they are MUCH faster.

Honestly, they look like fun, but they don't really scare me. Should be interesting.

[MrLobster]

They scare the bejeezus out of me in melee combat. I worry that either I kill them in a way that is 100% safe (box in and marksdwarf, or some kind of big trap), or they get into the fortress and everybody dies.

[nil]

Because they have low defenses and lack ranged weapons, werewolves are easy for a dwarf with good stats, skills, and equipment to kill.  Squads that lack any one of those things will see some casualties; less than that and they're dead for sure.

[jocan2003]

Doesnt speed also affect the speed of combat abilty? i mean a creature with 700 base speed at let say dabbling wont attack as fast as a speed 500 dabbling? Well im no sure....

[nil]

Doesnt speed also affect the speed of combat abilty? i mean a creature with 700 base speed at let say dabbling wont attack as fast as a speed 500 dabbling? Well im no sure....

Yeah, going by the wiki and my limited experience with Adventure mode I'm almost sure faster = more agile, which in turn means means more attacks.

[3]

Speed and agility are two seperate things - there's the base creature speed (900 by default in the raws) which is raised by being lowered, and then there's the in-game version displayed in adventurer mode (which is confusingly raised by being increased, and displayed as a completely different value). Agility is a modification on that base speed, but doesn't have anything directly to do with speed - it's just like the other two attributes.

[nil]

Hmm... I'm reading the wiki as:
-raw speed is the number found in the raws; lower = faster
-each level of agility will reduce a creature's effective raw speed value by 10%.
-effective raw speed determines how long a creature takes for actions like movement and attacks (higher number means more time per action so lower = faster)
-there may or may not be actions which check agility directly (maybe dodging, counterstrikes, miss/hits) rather than effective speed.

I think movement and attacks are in the same category when if comes to speed checks, pretty sure about all of the rest.  So effective agility may not always mean effective speed, but when if comes to movement and attacks am I wrong in thinking that a creature with a faster raw speed will be effectively the same as a high agility creature with a slower base speed (e.g., no stat werewolf, effective speed 600, is comparable to an extremely agile dwarf, effective speed 630)?  Or is it that neither speed nor agility affect how quickly a creature attacks?