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Author Topic: Deal with a demon: a video game idea  (Read 1690 times)

JoshuaFH

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Deal with a demon: a video game idea
« on: October 14, 2009, 08:46:01 pm »

So I had an idea for what I think would be a good premise for a videogame. It'll be very action oriented with light puzzle elements.

The game starts off with a mental patient in one of those big padded rooms. He's been thrown in the loony bin for some reason but doesn't want to remember, but what he does know is that he'is generally a harmless and well-meaning person. Although he's the person you control, he's not the main character, that title would belong to a very powerful demon/evil spirit that has taken up residence in his mind. Through possessing him, the demon gives him the choice to either ignore him, or accept him and receive demon powers in return. The game 'officially' begins when the patient makes the first deal, and gets the inhuman strength necessary to rip off his straight jacket and overpower the orderlies meant to look after him.

The demon promises the man freedom from the hospital and freedom from his troubles in order to encourage him, but has the ulterior motive of releasing a specific number of other possessed patients who don't have the power to escape by themselves.

Throughout the game, the demon will offer progressively stronger and stronger deals to the patient as he becomes more receptive to his persuasions, allowing him to have more health, take less damage, regenerate health faster, deal more damage, have more abilities, and generally being be more awesome in every way. This comes at the very noticeable price of the patient, starting out very kind and harmless, gradually loses his humanity, until he's a babbling monster that can't string together a sentence or interpret his surroundings in any meaningful way.

Ontop of the power he receives the gameplay changes to reflect his increase in power, as normal humans are quickly rendered a nonthreat, your power attracts the attention of increasingly powerful demons, spirits, and then eventually old testament-style angels (huge, horrifying, and buff as opposed to the wimpy-looking angels you see in most modern media). If you don't take his offers, then you're likely to not face some of the stronger enemies in the game, but you'll be more poorly equipped to fight the enemies you will encounter, so it balances out in a way.

The main conflict of the game would be more along the lines of the patient vs the demon, as the patient struggles to retain his humanity, while the demon struggles to remain in control of his host so he can complete his objective. The storyline would reflect this, as the patient struggles to disobey your influence over his mind, and all the major enemies try to take advantage of this struggle to forcefully separate you from your host.

To get an idea of what I'm thinking of, think of a demented environment like in "The Suffering", with trippy mindscrews like in "F.E.A.R.", and smooth fighting like "Godhand".

I might write up a short story so you have a good idea of the story dialogue between the patient and the demon I'm trying to get at.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 12:16:30 am by chaoticjosh »
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Aqizzar

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2009, 09:07:16 pm »

What I'm not getting is, what exactly is the player's part in this?  You say the demon is the real main character, and the more the patient accepts his deals, the more evil he becomes.  Which of them does the player control in play?  If you're guiding the patient (i.e. with the controller stuck to the back of his head as an action game would), it would seem like your actions are being railroaded to match what's essentially just a leveling system.  If just the demon, how the heck do you actually play it?  Cajole the guy into opening that door or picking up that item?
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JoshuaFH

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2009, 09:15:35 pm »

That's the part I'm trying to figure out myself. Though what I'm thinking of is: when the patient is pushed over the edge and accepts your deal, he relinquishes control of his body over to you, and as you progress, he tries to get it back. Your controls become sluggish or unresponsive to reflect this.

Now, to retain control, it might be that you have to remain violent and killing in order to loosen up his resistance. This could be handwaved by saying the demon is a 'demon of violence' or somesuch.

It doesn't help that I don't actually know alot about theology or the bible, so the Christian symbolism would be very Dan Browned in that respect.
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Aqizzar

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2009, 10:05:42 pm »

So, you're more of less controlling the patient, but if you take certain story paths, the controls go all crappy on you, because he's unhappy.  I'm not saying it's a bad idea (and I've heard it before as a deconstructionist explanation for games with unintentionally crappy controls), but it would be a hard sell.  Speaking of which, reminds me of Hard Cell.  I would certainly be interested to see it attempted.

It doesn't help that I don't actually know alot about theology or the bible, so the Christian symbolism would be very Dan Browned in that respect.

As if that ever stopped a game developer.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2009, 10:13:47 pm »

Alternatively: Instead of the demon being the main character, it's the patient, and a sort of 'pact' is made where you agree to meet the demons objectives for him. To make sure you hold up your end, he holds onto your soul as you fulfill his demands, and if you try to escape from the hospital before his demands are met, he carts you off to hell instantaneously.

The offers come gradually, but taking them is optional. He just leaves them on the metaphorical table, basically saying "Hey, if you can do what I ask without making these deals, that's great, but if you ever need a boost to get over whatever challenge is ahead of you, I'm right here, and willing to help...".

It's an idea in progress, is what I'm trying to say.
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Servant Corps

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2009, 10:48:15 pm »

If you are going to be playing as the patient, make the patient's first choice to work for the demon be OPTIONAL. The demon's path is always there, he could always work with the demon to gain skills, but the patient may decide to play pure "anti-demon" and refuse to take any of the optional sidemissions. The demon may still help him out as an "investment", in order to tempt the patient to eventually give in, but the patient does not have to give anything back in return.

In fact, it would be even more fun to play without the help of the demon. You, as a weakling, off to fight out superpowered orderlies ("superpowered" from your prespective, because they're normal human beings who work out and eat three square meals a day).

As for a reason why the patient is trying to escape, think about it. He says he's not insane, and yet he's stuck in this padded room with orderlies looking at him. He's inside of an asylum, and fictional depictions of asylums tend to be...not pretty. Of course he want to escape. And since we can assume that this demon is "real"...possibly this asylum is located in a theocracy. I think the patient would want to get out of this asylum quickly before the exocrism commence.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2009, 11:00:01 pm »

I've been toying with that idea as well Servant, if the player refuses the demon, then he's on his own pretty much.

Though, since he needs the demonic strength in order to free himself of the straight jacket, it'd be something of a "Straight Jacket Run" where he can't pick anything up, doesn't regenerate health (as that comes with the deal), can only attack though nonlethal kicks and tackles, can't climb ladders or open doors, and generally has to escape through pure skillfulness with the controls. Since any of the exits that would ordinarily be open in a normal run wouldn't be there (exit right there... can't... twist... knob!) he'd still have to progress through most of the hospital, but would only encounter normal humans as opposed to superpowered demons that you'd find in a normal playthrough.

It'd be something of a neat challenge to put into the game.
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Toady Two

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2009, 08:31:23 am »

If I may make a suggestion for the storyline. It would be cool if the whole story and ending could leave it unclear whether the patient is actually possessed by a supernatural entity or if he is simply insane and his "powers" are just a figment of his imagination stretching only beyond what a sane person could do. A madman could think he is ripping an mythological creature to shreds with the power of his mind where in fact hes just beating up a security guard.

The characters backstory could be exposed by the demon and point to traumatic events that led to the possession. It will be up to the player to decide that what he sees is real or is it just whats in the patients head.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to suggest here. ;D Think of the movie "K-Pax".
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bjlong

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2009, 12:42:36 pm »

Very interesting. Another thought, though:

Imagine that we can seperate the controls enough so that we can have a coop game where the patient and the demon are two (sometimes competing) humans. When they both want the same thing, then the human player controls what the human is actually doing, and the demon is doing something esoteric like "clearing psychic obstacles" so that the human can use whatever demonic powers he wants.

When they're in conflict, then there would be two possible states--human controlled and demon controlled. When the human is controlling the body, then the demon would be destroying or damaging "psychic centers" or someat, making the human hallucinate, have the controls end up loopy or whatever. When the human's weak enough, the demon could attempt to gain control of the body through some kind of duel-thing. But the damage doesn't get repaired through the game, so the hallucinations stick. Or maybe only repairs itself very, very slowly.

The demon controlled thing would be much the same, only here the human is setting up traps and creating defenses that would make the demon have to work even harder to clear psychic obstacles or whatever, which means that you'd be up against supernatural stuff with just punching for a pretty long while. So either way, everyone starts losing if everyone is disagreeing.

Then you could have two campaigns and a coop, but you'd have to have some way for players to communicate intelligently-maybe a pause-to-converse sort of thing, where one can shoot two or three replies back and forth, and then have to quit out to deal with whatever's happening in the real world.
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chaoticag

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2009, 01:26:16 pm »

Hmmm... it sounds cool.

If I can make the umpteenth sugestion: It would be cool to have the demon come in in a buisness suit while making vague references to freedom and such. The idea is that you are all alone, and this suggestively supernatural figure offers you a taste of power at seemingly no cost to you. As you accept more and more aggressive in his offers, clueing you in as to his true nature. I think that a fire and brimstone demon would detract from the game.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2009, 03:08:36 pm »

If I may make a suggestion for the storyline. It would be cool if the whole story and ending could leave it unclear whether the patient is actually possessed by a supernatural entity or if he is simply insane and his "powers" are just a figment of his imagination stretching only beyond what a sane person could do. A madman could think he is ripping an mythological creature to shreds with the power of his mind where in fact hes just beating up a security guard.

The characters backstory could be exposed by the demon and point to traumatic events that led to the possession. It will be up to the player to decide that what he sees is real or is it just whats in the patients head.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to suggest here. ;D Think of the movie "K-Pax".

I think I get what you are suggesting, but I haven't a clue how to represent it without it coming out lame, like "Oh, but it was all just an illusion after all...".

The possible mental illnesses the patient has though is excellent fodder for Eternal Darkness-style hallucinations and mindscrews. The demon playing on his emotions and revealing his past to him in order to control him is another possibility. Even something really cliche'd like "Oh, it turns out I killed my whole family" could be pretty moving if the presentation is convincing enough. Though, I'm a very large opponent to cutscenes, and I'd prefer if the story were delivered to you through normal gameplay. It's just a matter of how.

Very interesting. Another thought, though:

Imagine that we can seperate the controls enough so that we can have a coop game where the patient and the demon are two (sometimes competing) humans. When they both want the same thing, then the human player controls what the human is actually doing, and the demon is doing something esoteric like "clearing psychic obstacles" so that the human can use whatever demonic powers he wants.

When they're in conflict, then there would be two possible states--human controlled and demon controlled. When the human is controlling the body, then the demon would be destroying or damaging "psychic centers" or someat, making the human hallucinate, have the controls end up loopy or whatever. When the human's weak enough, the demon could attempt to gain control of the body through some kind of duel-thing. But the damage doesn't get repaired through the game, so the hallucinations stick. Or maybe only repairs itself very, very slowly.

The demon controlled thing would be much the same, only here the human is setting up traps and creating defenses that would make the demon have to work even harder to clear psychic obstacles or whatever, which means that you'd be up against supernatural stuff with just punching for a pretty long while. So either way, everyone starts losing if everyone is disagreeing.

Then you could have two campaigns and a coop, but you'd have to have some way for players to communicate intelligently-maybe a pause-to-converse sort of thing, where one can shoot two or three replies back and forth, and then have to quit out to deal with whatever's happening in the real world.

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here. Is it that you feel it would be two-player, with one player having fun and another one playing a little minigame to get him powers?

Hmmm... it sounds cool.

If I can make the umpteenth sugestion: It would be cool to have the demon come in in a buisness suit while making vague references to freedom and such. The idea is that you are all alone, and this suggestively supernatural figure offers you a taste of power at seemingly no cost to you. As you accept more and more aggressive in his offers, clueing you in as to his true nature. I think that a fire and brimstone demon would detract from the game.

It's like you can see into my mind Chaoticag. I really like the idea of a business suit demon. In fact, ideally, he wouldn't be threatening at all, he'd just come up to him and say something like "Hey, it looks like you're really down on your luck. Tell you what, I really need some errands done, and you want to get out of here, so let's see if we can make an agreement..." and very early on he'd be very polite, appeals to your desires, use reasonable arguments to egg you on, and generally try to convince you that you NEED him to survive. For character development, as the game progress/as you make more deals, he becomes ruder, more insulting, becomes less reasonable, and is just pushing you along at any costs.

New idea: Instead of the deals coming one at a time, they're all available at the start of the game, and you can sign up to become an ultra-demon right from the first room.

However, this would actually be very counter-productive, as you'd attract the most powerful enemies in the game much sooner than you would otherwise.

See, what I'm thinking of is: that the entire game is a battle against the difficult curve. In normal games, the curve is linear, going up gradually as you progress, but what I'm thinking of is that instead of the curve being linear, it's exponential. You'd be able to plow through with your current powers for awhile, but the difficult would soon ramp up to an unreasonable level, forcing you to consider the demon's deals in order to progress. So with each deal you make, you jump up considerably in power, and you flatten the difficulty curve, but with it being exponential, it'll last for awhile before jumping back up to unreasonably hard, forcing you to consider more of the demon's deals, and trading more of your humanity for ultimate survival. So if you did all of the demon's deals at the very start, you'd be very powerful, yes, but then the difficulty curve would jump up to unreasonable level VERY quickly, and you'd have no way to escape the difficulty, as there'd be no more deals to make, so the game becomes a dance to see how far you can get before NEEDING the next boost. Of course, ideally, while the game might become very hard, it would never be outright impossible, so self-imposed challenges like "Only take 1 deal" or "Max deals at start" would still be doable.

For example, at the very start, you have very strong demon arms that can overpower normal orderlies very easily, so the game ups the ante and throws alot of orderlies at you, so you need to make a deal to get super legs, so you can move and kick ass at a much faster rate. Then the game ups the ante and throws policemen with guns at you, and the guns deal so much damage that you need to consider taking another deal for bulletproof skin, so now they're a nonthreat. Then the game ups the ante again and has ghouls pop out of the ground that you can barely hit due to their smoke-like bodies, so you need to consider making another deal to get an evil aura that pushes them away or destroys them outright, but then the game ups the ante again and throws bonified demons at you with powers similar to yours, so you make another deal for awesome demon claws that you can use to cleave those guys in two, and etc and etc and so on and so forth. So the game is a giant contest of one-upsmanship of the game against the player, if that makes any sense.

Also, to reflect the character losing his humanity, the environment can start off very sane, perhaps even cheery at the very start, and as you take more deals, the architecture changes from benevolent to malevolent. Hallucinations become more frequent and powerful, and generally everything changes from happy, to hopeful, to dreary, to hopeless, to apocalyptic, and then to hellish, in a very gradual slide downward.

Also, perhaps just for fun, depending on what powers you have at what areas, it would be possible to take different routes through the hospital, so you could play through the game normally, then as you become more skilled you find that there's different ways to do things, or that the architecture in certain areas is very different if you manage to get to them without making alot of deals.
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bjlong

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2009, 04:11:21 pm »

Not quite a mini-game. Think of it this way: There are two "spaces" in the suggestion--an outer space (Kill the orderlies! Escape the prison!) and an inner space (Adventures in your own mind!). The first affects the second, and vice-versa.

Each actor--demon and human--want to control both spaces. You have to control the inner space to control the outer space, and things that happen in the outer space can change the inner space drastically.

Right. That's way to esoteric. Here's a basic way I'm seeing it:

The demon arrives and immediately has to destroy lots of enemies before he can set up a shop. Just by being there, he gives the human some basic powers, i.e. the ability to rip out of his straight jacket. Since the human signed on to his deal, he gets to set up some basic building/plant things next to whatever the human has built/grown. This stuff would somehow help him and give the human some demonic powers.

But that's not nearly demonic enough. Our demon wants to sabotage the human enough that the human asks for more demonic powers, so he starts altering other things. Let's say there's some sort of "punch center" that makes the humans' punches come hard and fast. The demon might be able to enter that and sneak around, unplugging things, taking things, etc, so the human notices that he just can't put the orderlies down anymore, so he gives in and lets the demon give him lazor eye beams or whatever.

The thing is, he can only do this if the human isn't aware of it, or else a whole bunch of very-bad-nasty enemies would pop up and try to kill him. (I'm imagining a system where there are a number of sentries floating around proportional to how attentive the human is--fighting would be the least attentive, idle would be middling, and he could "meditate" and find changes in his mind, but that takes time that orderlies could find him.) So it's in the demon's interest to keep him fighting.

So the demon has to 1) plant/build things, 2) try to sabotage things 3) convince the human to do things 4) all while beating off streams of enemies.

There'd also be centers for other things, like "love of music" "admiration for Martin Luther King Jr.," "Shampoo mohawks in the shower" that do nothing, but make the human more... human. Destroy these, and he'd start having other troubles, maybe. Possibly angst or a greater propensity to make bad decisions.

Then you can just do something somewhat similar for the human, but have him use more all-out-war tactics, trying to reclaim a lot of his mind.

I'm picturing a sort of Odin Sphere-esque system here. I also picture more things in the mind being unlocked to the demon as the game goes on, sort of as you get character development from the human.

This probably doesn't make a lot of sense, so I'm sorry in advance.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2009, 04:27:48 pm »

It's a good idea, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't quite fit into the image I have of it. What I'm thinking of is action that is over-the-top and adheres a great deal to the rule of cool, where strategy is secondary to violence. The inner conflict is more symbolic than anything else, and the inner demon is supposed to be alluded to be overwhelmingly strong and coy, not something that can be fought back with some good meditating.

So what I'm trying to get at is that it might slow down gameplay unnecessarily. Also, I've never played Odin Sphere, so I might not be aware of exactly what you're talking about.
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sonerohi

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2009, 05:14:13 pm »

I can help you with the Christian theology aspect so that you don't have to 'Dan Brown' it.
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bjlong

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Re: An idea for a game of mine, involving an evil spirit.
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2009, 06:00:33 pm »

Basically, Odin Sphere had two components: "What the fuck am I doing" and "Holy shit how do I kill these guys". The action was mostly non-stop, unless you took needed breaks to make potions (not that time intensive, once you figured it out) and plant things (Easy, but harvesting was a bitch). There's not a lot of down time unless you deliberately made it that way. If you've got a PS2 and ~$40, I'd highly recommend it.

As for the demon not being something you can really fight, you could handwave that (if you really wanted to) by saying that the demon can only be as strong as he's allowed to be by the human. I guess you could change the gameplay some as the demon to reflect this, but I don't know. That lines up with theology, btw, so you'd be on solid ground there.

So... yeah.
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