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[Puck]

This happened in austria. After an assload of money dissappeared in the "euro-fighter affair". It was _proven_ in several cases that there were bribes involved which lead to the decision buying the planes. The previous elections were pretty much rigged, which got us flak in the press all over the world. There were various accusations against the financial minister, now, years later there are even different matters surfacing concerning the same guy. And last but not least there were several scandals involving the most powerful bankers in the country.

Admittedly "it was a year full" in my first post was a figure of speech. IIRC it happened over the course of a few years, but all in the same period of legislature (you call it that way?)

the funniest story was that guy that got a real expensive penthouse basically for free, which was a really dirty story. But to top it of... he installed a pool on the roof and declared it as "water tank for the fire security system" (without actually rigging it up to sprinkler system of course) so he could make the city pay for it....

why the fuck would a millionaire steal a few thousand euros from the city after he basically stole a flat which already costs a few millions....

[Servant Corps]

Would you mind posting a online newspaper article describing that terrorist attack?

[Puck]

I possibly could be arsed to dig one up, in case you're talking to me, but first of all I resent a _fake_ bomb being called "terrorism".

Seriously. The people working at the parliament lost a few hours of work that day. If you see the TV broadcasts of the discussion culture there, you just KNOW they have enough opportunity to make up for the lost hours, probably before lunch (<- no populist generalization either. I know, you hear the same accusation in pubs all over the world... but... we actually had a parlamentarian collecting data and presenting it to the public, because he was so stumped about how much money they earn for so little work, and the VERY extended breaks they take - which lead to guilt ridden "lets look busy" behaviour in the following weeks...  ).

edit:

No record of who laid parliament mock bomb
Investigations into who placed a fake pipe bomb on the steps of the parliament building in Vienna early on Saturday morning have reportedly turned up no substantial leads. Terrorism experts are examining the pipe bomb and the accompanying letter. Police have said the letter gives no indication of the political background of the author. The spokesman for parliament, Gottfried Marckhgott, says an application had already been made for the right to record material from the security cameras around the building, before the mock bomb was found, because of a previous act of vandalism. Police have however no recordings from the Saturday incident.

and:

Updated: 2007-07-23 06:46

Fake bomb causes alert

Police tightened security around the parliament building in Vienna yesterday, a day after authorities discovered a fake pipe bomb and a rambling letter on the front steps of the complex.

Police stepped up patrols in the area, and officials with the Interior Ministry planned to decide today whether further measures would be taken.

Public broadcaster ORF quoted unidentified investigators yesterday as saying the letter, written in flawless German, included vague complaints about Austria's "intolerable" government policies.

didnt find anyhting else so far, but stumbled upon an article which reminded me of another story of corruption during that period involving a soccer stadium.

IIRC about that time it was proven that 27.4 BILLION per year are dissappearing due to corruption in austria and it was expected that the real number was about a third higher.

So please, dont accuse me of spouting populist generalizations, I have all the right to be angered, I just didnt feel like going through every little detail and actually boring you people with it. I just thought, for once, you guys might be able to take my word for it and just accept the premises.

But what pisses me really off... you know, I'm one of the people that tries to AVOID the news. But when I go outside and talk to people... some dont even understand this as what it is anymore. The working class  is being stolen from. PERIOD. That is no generalization at all.

You're a member of the working class, you go steal so much as a car - you go to jail. Or in case of that 14 year old guy that broke into a supermarket at night, only recently, you get SHOT in the BACK by a policeman.

You're a friggin banker or financial minister - you steal so much as a few million euros (or let yourself get bribed with) - you go to the bahamas and get your back RUBBED by some hottie. And - in most cases - the money involved in such affairs usually comes from taxes, which are paid for, mostly, by the "working class".

Seriously... Elsner? look it up. they had to claw him of a friggin golf course in france or whereever and DRAG him to court.

Want some more funny stories to read? look up "Karl heinz grasser". "Julius Meinl". "Wussow and Fortell". You will probably not believe it.

[Servant Corps]

I possibly could be arsed to dig one up, in case you're talking to me, but first of all I resent a _fake_ bomb being called "terrorism".

The point of terrorism is to cause terror. People can afraid of a bomb. Just because it's fake doesn't mean that for those few minutes, people were afraid of that bomb. Since it made people afraid, it's terrorism.

It doesn't matter if anybody actually got hurt by the terrorist attack, only that it was done to cause terror.

[Puck]

It doesn't matter if anybody actually got hurt by the terrorist attack, only that it was done to cause terror.

That's an assumption you cannot make just like that. Yeah, to you, that's maybe the message coming across. Maybe that's even what the guy had in mind. But from the letter included I'm pretty sure that wasnt their intention. Plus, for most people an empty toilet roll with some wire IS different to actually getting limbs blown off.

And while probably feeling sorry for the guys of the bomb squads I recall the general public finding the whole incident rather hilarious. I cant recall a single person talking about them being afraid because of the incident in any way. Maybe that's because we generally dont experience any real terrorism around here. I can see how the whole thing would be received differently in places of the world where you have to deal with actual terrorism.

[Earthquake Damage]

The point of terrorism is to cause terror. People can afraid of a bomb. Just because it's fake doesn't mean that for those few minutes, people were afraid of that bomb. Since it made people afraid, it's terrorism.

That's among the loosest possible definitions of terrorism.  At least it's not as loose as "stuff we don't like." 

[Servant Corps]

Well, my definition of terrorism is "the use of terror for political purposes", and since it was agreed upon that this attack was done for political purposes, what is important is determining if it caused any terror or not.

[Cthulhu]

placed a fake pipe bomb on the steps of the parliament building in Vienna

wasn't intending to scare people

You sure about that?

[Puck]

IIRC the included letter was pretty clear about the whole performance being intended as some sort of wake up call.

As I already said - I dont recall anybody being more scared to go out in the street or to public places any more than they usually would be.

Of course I cant be sure about that, I never said I was. I'm just telling you how people perceived the matter. It was no big deal and disappeared from the media real quick, and even if it accomplished NOTHING, it left more of a robin hood than an osama bin laden taste.

Just read the rambling I wrote, I mean, do you really STILL have to ask that question?

[redacted123]

-

[Puck]

  zing, yeah, I HATE wake up calls, point taken.

[Cthulhu]

IIRC the included letter was pretty clear about the whole performance being intended as some sort of wake up call.

As I already said - I dont recall anybody being more scared to go out in the street or to public places any more than they usually would be.

Of course I cant be sure about that, I never said I was. I'm just telling you how people perceived the matter. It was no big deal and disappeared from the media real quick, and even if it accomplished NOTHING, it left more of a robin hood than an osama bin laden taste.

Just read the rambling I wrote, I mean, do you really STILL have to ask that question?

I just find it hard to believe that a man left an explosive device on government property (Fake or otherwise) and didn't intend for people to get scared.

[Aqizzar]

And the whole point of a political "wake up call" in the form of a fake bomb is the threat of future violence.  Exactly like you said - "is FORCING people to take extreme measures".  How is leaving a fake bomb in front of a parliament building with a vague letter about needing to resort to extreme measures not intended to cause fear and panic?

Seriously, you've got your buried way too deep into this thing.  Just because you sympathize with their idea, doesn't mean it's not terrorism.  It's still terrorism, even if the situation really is bad enough to justify it.  (Which I'm not convinced on, but that's beside the point.)

[Puck]

even if the situation really is bad enough to justify it.  (Which I'm not convinced on, but that's beside the point.)

That is something you just cannot work out. Some people will always say a fake bomb is NEVER justified, some people will say they should have blown the parliament with a real bomb long time ago.

I'm not dug deep into anything. You asked me to give you some data, which I did. Without going all the way of getting you all the stuff you can read about the matter, because, actually, I'm not dug in deep 

Look up the names I gave you, follow some trails, and you'll see what I mean soon enough. But I get it, discussions about terrorism can get just as touchy as religion threads pretty quick.

edit; also I'm pretty sure I got quoted incorrectly the second time now, so please, people, stop putting words in my mouth

[Aqizzar]

edit; also I'm pretty sure I got quoted incorrectly the second time now, so please, people, stop putting words in my mouth

inability of the leading class to actually listen and change is FORCING people to take extreme measures.

You started this argument saying that leaving a fake bomb in front of your Parliament as a protest against some financial corruption is not an act to induce terror.  All I added was emphasis, don't try to walk out of it now.