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Author Topic: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes  (Read 1699 times)

Puck

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I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« on: October 14, 2009, 11:19:28 am »

My bike chimes in at 16-18kg, depending on tires. I add another 65 to 70 kg, depending on season ;D It's a hardtail with a rigid fork. Wheels have A LOT of mass, usually (when the street tires give in to a puny nail AGAIN and I have to ride my gazzaloddis til the replacement arrives in store...).

I dont really downhill all that much, and when I do I'm braking a lot, because of the rigid fork. For street riding, well, I actually DO need reliable braking power for the longer stairsets; you never know when you have to stop because of a pedestrian out of nowhere. Also, there are certain stairsets where I live, where I just cant allow myself to jump, so I HAVE to control my speed.

I'm considering mechanical discs because it's a lot less hassle when you damage the lever, which happens more often than you'd think. Buying a new lever and replacing it is DEFINETLY easier than on a hydraulic system.

Now the last time I looked at mechanical systems was about a decade ago. Back then they were just a no-no, no matter what. Since a lot of time has passed since then I figure things might have changed. I use hayes HFX 9 myself atm, with 203mm discs and I'm pretty sure I cant expect comparable stopping power from a mech system, but i'm willing to lose a bit trading for the upsides I hope to gain.

Dont ask me why I ask this around the nerdiest place I know, but maybe I get lucky ;D Anybody here that understands my situation and has some insight to share?

Rashilul

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2009, 11:21:54 am »

the nerdiest place I know
Pfff, good luck.
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Puck

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2009, 11:43:32 am »

What? I'm a nerd too, which lets me appreciate the physics, maths and biology behind some considerably jocky activities.

That's why I dont dismiss discussions about mechanical disc brakes from the start!

A_Fey_Dwarf

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2009, 01:54:19 pm »

I probably bike about 4km in total everyday and neither my front or back brakes work properly. I am yet to have an accident.
I would say nay about the disc brakes, sure the fork clamp brake things have a lot of trouble. My brakes rub on the back wheel rim causing me to slow down, so I disconnected them and now only use the front ones. Sure it's a little dangerous, but to be honest you shouldn't be stopping all that often anyway. At intersections sure, but you can dodge almost anything else without stopping due to the awesome maneuverability that bikes allow.
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Puck

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2009, 03:38:53 pm »

fork clamp thingies are called v brakes or cantilever brakes, depending on how they work. They can be adjusted, usually so they dont "rub". Unless your rim is really fooked.

One thing about those brakes is ... sooner or later you need a new rim, because after a few thousand km (a few hundred in really muddy conditions) the rim will be so thin it aint safe anymore.  And if you buy quality parts, the hub will still be okay. its considerably cheaper and more hasslefree to build a good wheel and use that for years while you only swap out the disc when its time. changing 6 screws tops (even less work with centerlock systems) is just faster than getting the right spokes and rebuilding the wheel after your rim is done.

That is the main reason why I use disc brakes. Also, the rims I use (I wont go into detail about every decision I made when building that bike...) dont even come for v brakes. they are just sold as disc versions, there is no other option.

and riding brakeless might be fine in traffic or the skatepark, but it really sucks for everything that goes even the slightest bit into the trial area. which i really like.

I have yet to figure out what your post is about, actually  ;D
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 03:40:44 pm by Puck »
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Sensei

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2009, 05:52:46 pm »

Disk brakes don't add a ton of stopping power. I've only ever used mech V brakes, and I've always been fine.

The big reason you'd want disc brakes is:
-The really expensive ones add stopping power you simply can't get with a V brake, but they're REALLY EXPENSIVE.
-Since they're in the middle of the wheel, they don't get wet as easily. It makes a huge difference in the rain.
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zchris13

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2009, 08:20:12 pm »

I think this dude is talking about motorbikes...
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Sensei

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2009, 08:24:58 pm »

That's what I thought, but then I wondered what kind of motorbike weights 20kg... lightweight dirtbike maybe? That would explain bringing up downhill. But he mentioned street tires, and I might add that I certainly hope he isn't riding a motorbike brakeless down stairs.

So, I'm pretty sure it's a bicycle.

A post by Puck might clear that up though...
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A_Fey_Dwarf

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2009, 11:17:35 pm »

... I don't think you can get v brakes or a rigid fork on a motorbike :P. Certainly a recipe for disaster if you did.

Anyways my back bike tire is buckled and I can't be bothered spending money on it to fix it. Also the back break is really badly adjusted and anything i tried to do just made it worse. What the heck do you mean by wearing the rim thin? I think the rubber break pads will wear down before the rim ever does. Unless i'm seriously getting my terminology confused I don't see how this is possible.

For my previous post, I was trying to say if you are mountain biking quite regularly then yes you may want disc brakes. If you are just in town then no, don't bother.
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sneakey pete

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2009, 03:22:50 am »

It's time someone said this..

Brakes? who needs brakes. Back in my day we'd just put our feet on the ground to slow down... if we wanted to at all!

Though back in my day wasn't exactly high performence on road cycling.
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Dwarf

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2009, 05:11:44 am »

What? You people actually even think about using a bike without brakes?

Also, v-brakes are teh awsum. Mainly because you don't get the same stopping power with moderately priced disc brakes, and disc brakes are harder to maintain in my experience. V-brakes are really easy to replace, same with the wheel.

Also, if you even accidentially get a single fucking drop of oil on your disc brakes, you can get into some real crap.
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Puck

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2009, 06:31:32 am »

Sheesh, I wasnt expecting a ton of folks that know less about biking than me :D

What the heck do you mean by wearing the rim thin? I think the rubber break pads will wear down before the rim ever does. Unless i'm seriously getting my terminology confused I don't see how this is possible.
First of all: Usually a bike lasts longer than one set of brakepads, therefor V-Brakes DO kill your rims. They will rub the metal down, sooner or later. If you look at modern rims, they have a little indicator on the braking area. Its just like a small ... trench? Once you braked so much you cannot feel that thing anymore, its time to swap the rim. If you're unlucky and you get a lot of dirt onto your brakepads a rim can be gone rather quickly. If you never completely braked through a rim, good for you, sometimes I kill mine rather quickly.

Normal rim lasts anything from a few hundred to a few thousand kilometres. My record for killing one was under 250km because it was THAT muddy and the brakepads caught little stones out of the mud, which CARVED the friggin rim down. So... => discs. It IS cheaper than v brakes in the long run, even when you dont abuse your stuff.

-Since they're in the middle of the wheel, they don't get wet as easily. It makes a huge difference in the rain.
Not really, it doesnt have so much to do with the position of the disc, but more with the way the brake works. It just doesnt "care" as much that it's wet. Also, this aint so much of a problem for me, there is a little trick: feather your brake, from time to time, once the conditions get wet. (Modern cars do that themselves, for instance) Whether you do that with a v brake or a disc brake doesnt matter all that much.

The big reason you'd want disc brakes is:
-The really expensive ones add stopping power you simply can't get with a V brake, but they're REALLY EXPENSIVE.
No, not really. Not anymore, at least, but to be honest, this wasnt even true about 2 years into the development of bicycle mounted discbrakes. Alright, depends on what you call "really" expensive. Below 200 bucks for a set (ie lever and caliper) is a LOT of money but not "really expensive" when it comes to bikeparts. and for that kind of mola, you beat EVERY rimbrake out there. Either way, I said I'm using Hayes HFX 9 with 203 discs right now. (That's enough clue for a passionate biker to tell it's probably not a motorbike ;) Altough there ARE plans for a motorized 40kg downhill bike... its probably using better ones than ye olde hfx 9). If I remember correctly, the whole set for front and rear chimed in at about 600 bucks, so yeah.

AND! I use double wide rims. It might not be that true these days, but back when I bought them, it was the most rigid stuff  could buy for your money. Since I'm not the bestest rider I tend to screw up landings, therefore I need sturdy rims. As I already said, the stuff I picked DOESNT EVEN COME FOR RIMBRAKES. And I certainly dont plan on getting different rims.

OH! and did I mention (yeah, yeah, I know I didnt) the fork and the frame I use.... well... THEY DONT EVEN HAVE FRIGGIN VBRAKE MOUNTS ANYMORE because, sheesh, you just dont use that stuff on those kinds of bikes anymore :D (Just kidding, v-brakes are fine, they are just not the right choice for my set of ... requirements)

So please people, dont lecture me on disc brakes. I know that you have to keep the discs clean, and once you really oiled the pads, it's time for some brake juvenation. I know which discbrakes I can buy to get better stuff than vbrakes, my question just was: Is anybody riding anything heavy duty and went from hydraulic to mechanical, either because they want to tailwhip/x-up or because they keep destroying their levers, and got something that offered a comparable level of performance?

And last but not least, for sneaky pete: I'm way ahead of ya! I still use the footjam for various stuff, but that shit just doesnt fly with stairsets or, as mentioned already ... everything trial style.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 07:06:30 am by Puck »
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zchris13

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2009, 04:33:32 pm »

Ow. Wow. You actually know what you are talking about.  I know the Bike Doctor.  He might be able to help you.
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Puck

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2009, 05:08:43 pm »

Who's the Bike Doctor?

But yeah, I'm serious, I haven't been following the development of mechanical discs, because I just dismissed them as a bad idea when they still were a bad idea. So much time has passed, maybe they offer acceptable performance. (searches seemed to point to the avid bb7, but I dont know if that thing even still exists, how much of a beating it can take - as in bike crashes and lands on the caliper - in the worst case)

The bike dealers here dont really have information on mechanical brakes. Either they are STILL bad, or they didnt bother look if anything ahs changed. Just like me.

zchris13

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Re: I'm considering mechanical disc brakes
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2009, 07:28:30 pm »

He is THE bike doctor.  He does bikes.  He is legit.
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