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That's right

That is right

[Jiri Petru]

[spoiler]

I know I'm repeating myself, but the trees here are very hard to see, especially the willows. There really needs to be more distinction between the trees and the grass.

I'm not whining! I'm providing criticism! 

[Rose]

I completely agree with you, which is why the next release won't have the trees, or the grass.

those won't become official till they look satisfactory.

[Jiri Petru]

I am thinking of doing my own set of trees as a form of healthy competition 
Well, to be honest, I don't expect myself doing more than two or three before losing interest - but I could use some little things to do to break the monotony of a diploma thesis writing. I'm doing it mostly for myself.

Anyway, here are rough and ugly mock-ups, and I have some questions.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The trees are ugly because I spent like a minute for each, it's just to test the proportions. The big ones are 3x3x3 (massive trees like oaks), the middle 2x2x3 (thin but high trees like birches), the small ones 2x2x2 (smallish but stocky trees like willows). My rough guideline is 1 Z-level for ~10 meters of height.

The question is: is this doable, or even wanted? Japa, I know you've said that even sizes are best but is there anything preventing odd sizes? And is there any specific format to prepare the trees in? I've noticed Dark Tundra's sprites are chopped into many small parts. What's the logic behind that? And is it possible to draw the whole tree first and chop it later?

EDIT: Also, if the forest is thick, not much of the ground would be seen. But I expect that a "hide treetops" command would be very easy to implement.

[Dark_Tundra]

The trees are made of blocks.
Each block must fit in a cube the same as any other stonesense tile.
If the trees were all one picture, intersecting buildings would not be able to "cut off the branches that are in the way", treetops would appear to stick out at odd angles should a floor cover them, and all floor/wall tiles drawn after the tree would be drawn over the top.(I believe stonesense draws top to right, moving towards the bottom left, then stacking levels.)
The trunk is a single tile, all other parts fit around that. Though you can half fill a tile on either side so the tree is only 2 wide/deep, it would actually use 3 wide/deep tiles.
Trees should be in .png arrangement can be defined in xml.

I drew mine and chopped later. It's a lot more work to fill in the parts that are only seen as layers are chopped.

If it helps, here are the trees without leaves, if you want them as a starting point or guide, go for it.

Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)

start counting at 0, 0 is center, 1-8 run clockwise from the top, 10-18 is the next level, 9/19 indicate a layer to be inserted(9=between 0-8 & 10-18; 19=on top).

I hope someone can get through all the trees, I focused so much on how they looked on their own that I forgot to check how it looked in stonesense. Now I'll probably have to start over with most of them.


EDIT:Oh, and on the hide treetops thing, I believe the treetops are cut off the same as any constuction once you move the view lower than the top. (another reason why they are sliced up into cube volumes)

[therahedwig]

I completely agree with you, which is why the next release won't have the trees, or the grass.

those won't become official till they look satisfactory.

That's okay...

Except the grass look satisfactory to me. Some people say they don't like the grass, but that's just honestly what it looks like in real-life.
So I don't know what I'm supossed to do now, do people want the multiple options, do people want the grass to be the same sprite over and over, do people just want the old grass?

I can't make 'satisfactory' grass if I can't get proper feedback.

[Jeoshua]

I love the grass.  If Stonesense isn't released with the pretty grass, well I... I'll....

Keep using the grass I downloaded off the SVN

[Ethicalfive]

I love the new grass also! I think the trees stand out fine to me aswell.

[Footkerchief]

That's okay...

Except the grass look satisfactory to me. Some people say they don't like the grass, but that's just honestly what it looks like in real-life.
So I don't know what I'm supossed to do now, do people want the multiple options, do people want the grass to be the same sprite over and over, do people just want the old grass?

I can't make 'satisfactory' grass if I can't get proper feedback.

My feedback is that the grass and flowers would look better if each individual sprite was sparser.  They're so dense that they blot out everything else.

[Rose]

The problem with the grass right now is that it's the same size as the trees, otherwise it looks great.

[Jiri Petru]

Thanks for the tree explanation, Dark_Tundra.

And here's a question to Japa: I understand the logic behind cutting the trees to cubes. My problem is that drawing it quadruples the work and doesn't sound much fun. I'd rather draw simple 2D sprites first and make cubes only when everything is done. So would it be possible to have the trees as simple 2D posters (ie. in one piece) and have them display in Stonesense - even if it means some glitches? Bear in mind I'm still doing it for fun, not for the official release, and people who wouldn't mind the glitches could download the pack themselves.

Or more specifically - have one 1x1x1 tile as the stump/trunk of the tree, and then everything else as one big (say 3x3x3) sprite on top of the trunk? (This way it would be possible not to show the treetops at ground level).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It doesn't look that bad. The only problem is when there is a floor directly above the tree - see the right rampart. A simple solution would be using a 1x1x1 sprite in these cases (see the left rampart) or simply use the 1x1x1 trunk (not pictured).

I'm not requesting you to code anything more just for myself. I'm trying to make some trees as simply as possible and would like to know what's doable.

[Rose]

it actually is possible, but requires a little XML trickery.

stonesense can only load 32x32 sprites for the trees, but you can load more than one of them, and each layer can be shifted an arbitrary amount in the X and Y directions.

you see what I'm going at?

[Jiri Petru]

I guess... I simply cut the 3x3x3 tree to several cubes as needed, not drawing anything new? Sounds much easier than drawing 27 separate cubes and drawing the non-visible parts.

I'll try experimenting with it. I'd still love to have proper 27 cube trees someday but ouch, the work!

[Rose]

nah, don't think of it as a block of cubes

think of it as a bunch of squares.

[Greiger]

The internet is a series of tubes....


sorry...

[Jiri Petru]

nah, don't think of it as a block of cubes

think of it as a bunch of squares.

Yes, that's the way I understand it. I just chose wrong words. Thanks, anyway!
Now off to work!