Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

That's right

That is right

[Jiri Petru]

A man can dream 



Just a fun mockup, more info about the interface here. Sorry for this little advertisement.

[Clockworkpersona]

A man can dream 



Just a fun mockup, more info about the interface here. Sorry for this little advertisement.

This is amazing! Is this really so hard to do right now? I mean we already have utilities like DFmanager, that communicate with the game.

[Solifuge]

In theory, making a GUI shell to run with DF is entirely possible. The question isn't whether we can do it, though, but whether we should.

1) Many of the menus can't be read or interpreted, at least not without an extensive expansion of DFhack. Thus, much of the game information can't be reported.

2) Tarn has expressed specific reservations about this sort of thing, and for good reason. We can't match pace with his development, and it takes a significant ammount of time and effort to update DFHack, and Stonesense, for each new release. A lot of things change behind the scenes with each release.

3) Assuming that this hypothetical GUI would be pretty, shiney, and more user-friendly, Players may come to regard it as the "proper" interface for DF, which it is not. This could potentially harm Tarn's development process, and/or his drive to work on things... especially since he doesn't want this to evolve into anything resembling a collaboration. Personally, I can understand his perspective, and really don't want that to happen, because he's putting a lot into this.

It's been discussed before. I think that theoretically it would be a nice idea, but unless Tarn were to give an explicit "Go Ahead," I would personally not feel comfortable having my work used in such a program.

--
EDIT: Speaking of my work, guys... ermmm... would Japa or Jonas or Peter or whoever care to direct me toward what graphical assets y'all need? I think I've sabatacled long enough, and I seem to have lost my old list. >.<;

[Robsoie]

what does your stonesense.log say?  have you tried other graphics modes? what videocard do you have?

Unfortunately the log is not really going into detail (as i said, it does not crash maybe that's why the log does not really go into details, it seems just frozen into a black screen after the Connecting to DF part).

Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 4.9.20 r0
4096 is too large. chopping it.
2048 works.

But i think it may be the OpenGL version on this new Stonesense evolution, because the card on that system is a g31/g33 (gma 3100) on a XP SP3, and is running opengl version 1.4 , there is no OpenGL 2.0 support in any Intel drivers for that card, apparently Intel forgot that OpenGL was an ever evoluting API and did not stop at version 1.4.

This seems confirmed by a change to DirectX in the init.txt, that suddenly made Stonesense to work, thanks for pointing to me the render change hint.

[belannaer]

what does your stonesense.log say?  have you tried other graphics modes? what videocard do you have?

Unfortunately the log is not really going into detail (as i said, it does not crash maybe that's why the log does not really go into details, it seems just frozen into a black screen after the Connecting to DF part).

Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 4.9.20 r0
4096 is too large. chopping it.
2048 works.

Mine actually totally crashes and doesn't just freeze up and the log still says the same thing only.

But i think it may be the OpenGL version on this new Stonesense evolution, because the card on that system is a g31/g33 (gma 3100) on a XP SP3, and is running opengl version 1.4 , there is no OpenGL 2.0 support in any Intel drivers for that card, apparently Intel forgot that OpenGL was an ever evoluting API and did not stop at version 1.4.

This seems confirmed by a change to DirectX in the init.txt, that suddenly made Stonesense to work, thanks for pointing to me the render change hint.

I tried change the renders to both DirectX and software and none of them had any help. Still crashes as usual.

[Gabriel A. Zorrilla]

This is my log:

No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process

[Rallion]

This is amazing! Is this really so hard to do right now? I mean we already have utilities like DFmanager, that communicate with the game.

I don't think it would be feasible to do it the same way the manager programs do it. The idea of writing to the game's memory, in real time, on such a large scale makes me nervous. Maybe it would be possible to write something that modifies the game by just sending key commands to it. Still, even if you get that working perfectly there are a lot of very important things that have never been done before AFAIK, including simple things like reading where the cursor is, what areas are designated, etc.

I could be wrong, though. I'm no expert.

[Viken]

Just my two cents on the issue of the interface, while I love the idea and the design, especially when combined with Stonesense (which I am a great fan of), I know that Tarn has expressed his concern about such command-operated programs interjecting information into DF that has nothing to do with making the game more playable in its widest sense. 

While DFHack and DwarfTheorapist(sp?) work to make the game more playable, they limit the amount of infirmation they subject back into the game itself, more like add-ons that change the playability than something that would totally re-write how the game looks and works. 

Personally, I'd love it if DF had a more creative interface (sorry Tarn, I grew up with the PSOne and Nintendo), but it isn't a must sense I've learned over several long game sessions on to control the game with enough out-of-memory commands that I don't even have to think about it anymore.

On an unrelated note, great work on the new releases, guys! *Bows*

[Jiri Petru]

I made that picture just for fun, didn't mean to imply anything or start a discussion on how we should hack the interface in. Sorry.

[Clockworkpersona]

I'm sorry if I sound cocky, but I doesnt seem to understand this attitude against the better interface. Come on, we are in the year 2010, i think that graphic design and particulary the design of information has become a such an important thing in gaming and control is one of most crucial things in citybuilding simulations.

I grew up playing pharaoh and ceasar and anyone whos been playing it can say, how much in the terms of immersive gameplay it helps to have a nice looking ui with streamlined information.

I think that DF now spans so many functions that it just cannot be ignored anymore, just remember the "crisis" that happened after the new military system/interface (ive been working as a designer for about 6 years and I never seen such a mess) become relevant, for how many veteran players it was utterly impenetrable.

As to the issue of memory hacking, i dont mean to sound like no heretic, but is it really that big of a deal? You say that "it has nothing to do with making the game more playable in its widest sense." Im sorry, but that seems to be straight wrong with me. I think that one of the strongest points of gaming is control, and i think everyone agrees that the todays system of UI (you have to memorize everything, if you want anything at all, its not intuitive, it doesnt help newcomers to get into the game) isnt the best thing.

[jonask84]

The picture looks absolutely amazing Jiri, it's really fun to see I'm gonna keep an eye on your project for sure. And don't worry, we're not restarting the interface debate again


@belannaer and Zorrilla: Would it be possible for you to test the dfhack tools, to see if dfhack is able to connect to DF.

[forsaken1111]

Stuff

This isn't a game released for the general public, this is an alpha version of a game still in development. A user-friendly UI is not a priority.

[jonask84]

Guys, guys, let's take this ever-fruitful UI discussion to dedicated thread

[Old-one-eye]

stonesense doesn't seem to work with .06...

[Woof]

stonesense doesn't seem to work with .06...

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1317189#msg1317189 ?