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[Jude]

So, nobles seem to devote their time entirely to deconstructing buildings and squirting out babies. My Duchess recently had two of the things in hand, until one finally became a child.

Anyway, for anybody who's played long enough to see a noble give birth to a baby that ends up an adult, do those kids become peasants just like every other dwarf, or do they turn into MORE nobles?

Also, do kings/queens give birth, and what about THEIR kids?

[SquirrelWizard]

all children grow up to be peasants/planters regardless of social status. As to the king and queen, I dont know but if it follows the other noble trends then my first statement should hold the same.

[shadowclasper]

I do believe they become Pesants.

The dwarves don't truck with this nonsense about noblity by birth. You EARN it. This is why Nobles, like legendaries of all types, don't have to pay for rent and stuff.

The thing about nobles, is that they have surpassed legendary in whatever their previous profession was, and distilled it into it's platonic form. The ultimate expression of this is the Philosopher, the most useful of nobles, who requires nothing and makes no mandates because he is that self assured of his complete and total badassery. Even if a goblin strikes him down, he will only become one with the dwarforce and thus, infinitely stronger. This is true of all nobles. They do not need to preform heroic deeds. They did that off screen years and ages ago. And it was FAAAR more bad ass than anything your dwarves have, or ever will, do. This is why you never see units spontaneously become true nobles like Barons and higher.

Simply put. Nobles are more badass than you, and they know it. They're so incredibly bad ass, that whatever their legendary trait was before, has undergone apotheosis and is no longer shown on the skills menu. If they did, your eyes would be burned out by the sheer AWESOME.

[smjjames]

Yea, they all start out as peasants, unless a mood hits them.

I guess the King and Queen would have kids (they don't tow along their other children and their families though) and they start out as peasants as well.

Actually, with Dwarf Manager and Dwarf Therapist (DT is a more advanced version of DM), you can set your nobles to do whatever you want them to do, even work. Still can't draft them though, with the exception of your appointed/elected dwarves like the mayor, broker, manager, etc.

Ninjaed by SquirrelWizard. Although the kids would have a chance at the throne, royal succession is broken atm. I think this is fixed in the next version, not sure.

@Shadowclasper: They do follow nobility by birth for royalty, at least as far as bieng in line for the throne. Still, they earn themselves a living before rising to power, I've seen rulers who used to be farmers, fisherdwarves, etc. In fact, the king of my civ in the current game was a hunter/ranger before he rose to power.

[Quietust]

This also plays rather oddly with the economy, since children start with accounts based on both of their parents, and nobles don't have bank accounts since they don't do work. Thus, the son of a legendary Miner and Stone Crafter will be able to rent a Royal quality room, but the son of a King and Queen Consort won't even be able to afford a 1-tile bedroom designated from a normal-quality bed placed on a tile of dirt.

[shadowclasper]

This also plays rather oddly with the economy, since children start with accounts based on both of their parents, and nobles don't have bank accounts since they don't do work. Thus, the son of a legendary Miner and Stone Crafter will be able to rent a Royal quality room, but the son of a King and Queen Consort won't even be able to afford a 1-tile bedroom designated from a normal-quality bed placed on a tile of dirt.

Of course not, such children are held to a MUCH higher standard, they must PROVE their worthy. Their parents can't offer any assistance what so ever or it would tarnish their reputation.

I should seriously write an article on why this all works XD

[smjjames]

Theres other reasons why the economy (ingame, not the US economy) is so broken right now.

Kind of makes sense since alot of times I see rulers who had farming/fishing type jobs (low class) before they rose to power. I have yet to see one which was a mason or a miner or something. Maybe it's just the way worldgen works, dunno.

[shadowclasper]

Skilled workers are too high up on the chain of presitige. Everyone knows that kings and princes rise up from the most humble of positions in life, like farmer's boys and swine herds. It's how the world works.

[slink]

Do they have to pull an axe out of an obsidian boulder?   

[shadowclasper]

Do they have to pull an axe out of an obsidian boulder?   

Only humans depend on silly magical tricks. Now, if Dwarves had something like that, there'd be a mechanism underneath that measured, based on breathing, body temperature, and vibrations due to heart rate, whether or not people believed somebody to be worthy or not, then release said axe.

[Blackburn]

Would it release magma if the puller was unworthy?


Also, in regards to the theory that nobles are retired badasses, what does that make the hammerer and the dungeon master? Awesome or not awesome?

Or do they not count as true nobles in the eyes of the fans?

[Jude]

Since having a king die in dwarf mode means the king won't be replaced, I'm assuming there's no mechanism for succession created yet. Still, it'll be cool in future versions to have the first child of a king become the heir apparent and take over after him - maybe with accompanying changes in policy.

Or, if Toady decides to go in a different direction with dwarven social systems, maybe the thing about nobles actually being uber-skilled and part of the dwarven meritocracy could be right. Although I don't see dwarves ever esteeming someone for their skill to the point that the skill doesn't get used; the more you use your legendary skill, the more respect you get, I'd think.

[shadowclasper]

Magma is not released against the unworthy, not unless everyone seems to feel the bastard is a total wanker who could never possibly deserve it because he'll never put in the effort (AKA: He's dead weight)

Hammerers and dungeon masters are protonobles. Same for the Tax collector. Each represents a different paragdim before advancing to true nobility
Champions and other fighting based jobs with legendary skill go onto become Hammerers, who are in a kind of permanently martial trance.
Legendary Workers and Crafters go on to become Dungeon Masters
Legendary Elocutionists such as the guy who should be your broker go on to become Tax Collectors.

And it's not that they don't do it any more. It's that they've brought it to a platonic level of perfection, if they actually were to physically embody that skill after becoming nobles, they'd no longer have a -platonic- level of perfection, and thus no longer be worthy of nobility.

In the end, this is the true purpose of philosophers, they're the only dwarves who are capable of telling who is skilled and freaking awesome enough to learn the secrets behind attaining platonic levels of perfection, and thus becoming nobility. Hammerers, Dungeon Masters, and Tax Collectors are in the training stages.

This is also why you usually receive your philosopher before you receive anyone else (bar the dungeon master).

It also might be possible that true nobles are legendary in -everything-. Including Throwing and Swimming, thus Hammers, Dungeon Masters, and Tax Collectors are in the halfway point between achieving full and total perfection and just legendary in one thing.

[Blackburn]

I see.


Then the reason they are so easily killed is because their awesomeness is tired of being confined to mortal bonds and wishes to free itself and move on to the afterlife, where they can kick the asses of everyone they killed a second time. And, I dunno, maybe arm-wrestle each other or summon rocks to drop on elves' heads from the heavens.

[shadowclasper]

Exactly.

As I said before, their awesome skills underwent apotheosis. The dwarven gods took them up and probably bottled them or something because if they didn't the dwarf in question would burst into flames of pure win and god. Thus, he's turned into some one who is PLATONICALLY a major badass in everyway possible, if totally useless in a nonplatonic sense. But just you wait till you get to the after life, THEN you'll be sorry for not having made him that solid electrum statue of toe nail clippers.