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[Maximum Spin]

That argument would fully apply from birth through adulthood. Maybe this is what you want, of course - do you generally think people have the right to murder their kids?

I much prefer the symmetrical solution of having the parents painlessly euthanised instead. After all, they're the ones who get a choice.

It really is a perfect solution. Don't want the trouble of giving birth? We can put you in a medically induced coma until full term, then deliver the child and euthanise you. No trouble for you whatsoever.

[dragdeler]

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[Maximum Spin]

It's not like it doesn't take a shitload of abstraction to define these globs as fully human, what fucking mammal can't breathe on its own?

Only adult male property owners of my race are fully human, of course.

[Yoink]

Just chuck 'em all into government funded dojos

[LordBaal]

I think this is going out of hand and is not place to have such arguments.

[Maximum Spin]

I think this is going out of hand and is not place to have such arguments.

Sorry, I just have a very strong intrinsic loathing for people who think their personal hangups are Correct Morality.

[LordBaal]

I feel you and me too. Drag is actually a solid guy, people just have different outlooks on life and way to express themselves. As one goes through the stages of life your opinions can and will change.

I can only hold onto my experience and transmit it to you guys. The best day in my whole life is the day I held peter on my arms the very first time. I can't justify why anyone would harm a baby/kid before or after being born.

I also realize pete was a planned and desired baby, and he is lucky to have a family that loves him and other kids migth not have such luck and there are cases were abortion would seem more humane. As said, is a really troublesome issue.

[dragdeler]

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[Maximum Spin]

I am surprised that being an actual body somehow equates to supremacy. And also that entertaining ideas of sanctity of unborn life is somehow the feminist stance.

That's because you're assuming your categories are the categories. It's a common mistake, so I won't push the argument further.

[Rolan7]

I feel you and me too. Drag is actually a solid guy, people just have different outlooks on life and way to express themselves. As one goes through the stages of life your opinions can and will change.

True, when I was a teen I wanted to make grandchildren for my parents.  Not so much anymore
Sorry, you're right of course.  But sometimes opinions don't change, and the hint of "It's just a phase" makes me defensive.  I can't see my position changing unless I actually begat a child, then I bet it would.  Biological imperatives are scary like that.

I think this is going out of hand and is not place to have such arguments.

Sorry, I just have a very strong intrinsic loathing for people who think their personal hangups are Correct Morality.

Yeah I'm pretty tired of parents insisting that protecting one's genetic offspring is the ultimate Correct Morality and pushing that idea on everyone else.  You can't openly question it though without being "loathsome".

Still, one gets used to it, and I'm glad we're able to coexist nowadays.  It's even legal for people like me to adopt, at least some places, and I think that's a great mutually beneficial arrangement.  Particularly for all the orphans.

[Maximum Spin]

Yeah I'm pretty tired of parents insisting that protecting one's genetic offspring is the ultimate Correct Morality and pushing that idea on everyone else.  You can't openly question it though without being "loathsome".

You think that's a gotcha but I'm not a parent and I didn't espouse any particular position on the subject...

[Rolan7]

That's kinda a relief, because I always prefer to criticize larger systemic issues than particular posters!

[Maximum Spin]

That's kinda a relief, because I always prefer to criticize larger systemic issues than particular posters!

Well, all right, maybe you didn't think it was a gotcha, then. The repetition of "loathsome" seemed pointed. But if you did, I promise, my disgust at one person's nasty dismissal of dissenting viewpoints is pure and does not imply anything about my own position, which isn't itself worth the trouble of discussing.

[dragdeler]

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[LordBaal]

At any rate discussing raped minors and abortion is fucking depressing. Now I'm below the floor.