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[delphonso]

Dragons are just metaphors for people and angry clouds

Just about every monster has been used at a metaphor at some point. Whether or not the origin is in that metaphor is different. I, for one, prefer to believe that the story of dragons was based on a particularly ugly dog a very very long time ago.

[scriver]

a metaphor for a very ugly dog

[Reelya]

Dragons are just metaphors for people and angry clouds

Just about every monster has been used at a metaphor at some point. Whether or not the origin is in that metaphor is different. I, for one, prefer to believe that the story of dragons was based on a particularly ugly dog a very very long time ago.

The more interesting theory I heard was that dragons are an amalgam of the main predators that primates faced.

http://www.thepipettepen.com/how-evolution-gave-us-dragons/

Studies of Vervet monkeys demonstrate that they are especially fearful of three particular predators – lions, eagles, and snakes – and Vervet monkeys have specific cries they make when they spot these predators

Related creatures would be griffons and manticores, especially the propensity to add wings to the manticore.

[scriver]

Anything stretching dragons beyond snakes is pretty much reaching too far

But snakes they are, of course

Since they're big fucking snakes

[Iduno]

Dragons are just metaphors for people and angry clouds

Just about every monster has been used at a metaphor at some point. Whether or not the origin is in that metaphor is different. I, for one, prefer to believe that the story of dragons was based on a particularly ugly dog a very very long time ago.

Childhood's End has and interesting idea too, I guess.

[Jopax]

So they've cut my pay, by like a third, it's only a temporary measure since business has slowed down significantly what with our biggest clients the Italians are going trough a localized apocalypse. Trouble is, the combination of hours and the demands of the position itself make the whole thing extremely unappealing and the only thing that kept me going was the decent pay, which is kinda gone now.

meh

[hector13]

Time to start looking for a new job.

[ChairmanPoo]

So they've cut my pay, by like a third, it's only a temporary measure since business has slowed down significantly what with our biggest clients the Italians are going trough a localized apocalypse. Trouble is, the combination of hours and the demands of the position itself make the whole thing extremely unappealing and the only thing that kept me going was the decent pay, which is kinda gone now.

meh

Localized apocalypse? Its localized everywhere man

[Jopax]

Sure but they're the only place where it's reached super-duper bad plus extra levels of shit. The rest of the world will probably follow during the remainder of the year but so far it's mostly trucking along.

Also yeah, I've never intended to work here for too long and this might be the thing that pushes my decision time a bit earlier. Issue is tho, with most of the world going into an economic shitter finding a job is gonna be rather tough, especially in my region since we've had some big shit go down in the past six month which left a whole bunch of people jobless and will likely have further knock-on effects in the coming years (having your biggest/only aluminium plant shut down due to corruption induced bankruptcy leaving some 800+ folks jobless tends to do that)

Tho, don't think I've ever seriously considered staying here so gtfoing as soon as an opportunity presents itself is probably the plan. Luckily I've got some money saved up so I can last a while even if I don't manage to find anything immediately.

[Reelya]

Anything stretching dragons beyond snakes is pretty much reaching too far

But snakes they are, of course

Since they're big fucking snakes

The origin may have been a snake, but snakes don't have wings and legs. The origin being "big snake" doesn't preclude the idea that other aspects were added from other animals, and that these additions were related to other primal fears (carnivora and birds of prey).

If you google "dragon" and click images you'll notice many of them have decidedly feline-like bodies (not bear-like or dog-like, but specifically cat-like), along with reptilian qualities and the wings. No living reptile has wings, so those definitely don't stem from fear of reptiles. Also, snakes being the basis actually fits with the psychology aspect. They're the thing the most people have an innate fear of out of the three classes, even if snakes aren't actually a realistic threat to you: if you live in Manhattan for example, fear of snakes is entirely irrational, yet about 40% of all people have this fear no matter how unlikely it is that snakes will harm you, it's evolutionary and small children have higher levels of fear of snakes even if they never saw a snake before. So it makes sense that a made-up threat based on human psychology would be a snake before anything else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon#Sources_of_inspiration_for_dragon_myths
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/c3x1d3/snakes_lions_eagles_and_dragons_new_class/
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/where-did-dragons-come-from-23969126/

[Il Palazzo]

No living reptile has wings, so those definitely don't stem from fear of reptiles.

No living piranha has wings, but the flying piranhas in Piranha 2: Flying Killers definitely stem from fear of piranhas. Adding wings is just your worst fear, but made worse.

[ChairmanPoo]

No living reptile has wings, so those definitely don't stem from fear of reptiles.

No living piranha has wings, but the flying piranhas in Piranha 2: Flying Killers definitely stem from fear of piranhas. Adding wings is just your worst fear, but made worse.

What about gliding stingrays? It could be that flying piranhas are a heavily distorted by retelling version of deadly stingrays leaping out of water and killing people.

[Reelya]

No living reptile has wings, so those definitely don't stem from fear of reptiles.

No living piranha has wings, but the flying piranhas in Piranha 2: Flying Killers definitely stem from fear of piranhas. Adding wings is just your worst fear, but made worse.

What about gliding stingrays? It could be that flying piranhas are a heavily distorted by retelling version of deadly stingrays leaping out of water and killing people.

Pretty funny, but it is pretty clear that the root of dragons is snake fear, and that this fear is innate (like I said, the "they're just snakes" thing doesn't actually contradict the basic premise). About 40% of people have the snake phobia, it's one of the most common if not the most common phobia in all people, and there's basically no rational basis for why the fear is so widespread. Fear of heights makes more sense in the modern world but more people are still scared of snakes. So you have the base fear, snakes, being pretty much the most common of all phobias, and that has something to say about dragons. The shit that makes them even scarier than just snakes does have something to say about other common fears, once you accept that humans are irrationally scared of snakes, and dragons stem from that.

[Il Palazzo]

But you're using modern-day statistics to justify this 'pretty clear' conclusion. You don't know if humans were irrationally scared of snakes at the time and place dragons were invented. For all we know, they might have just thought them annoying pests or source of easy food, and much less anxiety-inducing than e.g. wild pigs.

Myself, I think it's pretty clear that the root of dragons is crocodile fear, and that this fear is innate. About 100%* people have the crocodile phobia, and there's a pretty rational basis for this fear**.

* data from the Institute of Hot Air and Arses
** crocodiles are fucken scary***
*** data from the Institute of Circular Logic

[Reelya]

It makes less sense that's there's a near universal irrational phobia of snakes now, and there wasn't before.

Also, it's common to not just humans, but a bunch of mammals, so I'd invoke Occam's Razor here. Why postulate an entirely novel reason for the irrational fear of snakes in humans, when there's already literature showing this is a common thing in our mammalian relatives?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophidiophobia

A 2001 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden suggested that mammals may have an innate negative reaction to snakes (and spiders), which was vital for their survival as it allowed such dangerous threats to be identified immediately.[3] A 2009 report of a 40-year research program demonstrated strong fear conditioning to snakes in humans and fast nonconscious processing of snake images; these are mediated by a fear network in the human brain involving the amygdala. A 2013 study provided neurobiological evidence in primates (macaques) of natural selection for detecting snakes rapidly.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3839741/

We're basically still monkeys, and the things which freak us out are things from our monkey heritage. Stuff in horror films isn't there because it's rationally a threat, it's put there "because it's scary", but we don't ask ... why is it scary in the first place?