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[Hanslanda]

Stopping alcohol and caffeine consumption will help you with half of that, perhaps meditate on the thought of wrong. What is wrong? What is failure?
Don't let others tell you what is successful and righteous. Discover yourself.

I only drink one cup of coffee on workdays. I still drink a bit more than is healthy but I'm down from a half gallon every two days to about three beers and a couple shots most nights, but sometimes none at all.

It's not always caused by alcohol either. Again, I've been depressed a hell of a lot longer than I've been drinking.

Existing depressions can absolutely be worsened by alcohol however, which is why Hans has been drastically cutting down his alcohol intake for, what... Over a year now?

Not entirely successfully but yeah. I've admittedly been completely clear on drugs for about that long though. ALL drugs, except my blood pressure stuff that I quit taking 4 months ago after improved diet, increased exercise, and slightly reduced alcohol intake brought my BP down to 100/75 average

[Reelya]

Three beers plus a couple of shots every night may be less, but that's still a lot of booze, speaking objectively.

EDIT: Moderate drinking for men is defined as being about 2 beers a night, or that would be 1 beer plus a couple of those shots probably. So you're currently drinking roughly double the level most sources call moderate.

[Hanslanda]

Compared to approximately 20 ish fluid ounces a night, 5 ish is a significantly healthier reduction in consumption. I know it's still heavy drinking but steps. I'd like to avoid delirium tremens and all the other terrible withdrawals symptoms.

[Kagus]

There's evidence that it is effective...

Oh I'm aware. Believe me, I'm aware. Psilocybin, LSD, ketamine; I've been informed of a number of alternative treatments. Some that show a lot of promise!

Considering that there are other, safer drugs out there though

And therein lies the rub. I'm not saying it isn't potentially effective, I'm saying that there are potentially very severe side effects. And also saying that one should generally try to learn more about the situation before suggesting such alternatives.

I just find the judgemental attitude shown by certain persons to be thoroughly unpleasant and wish they would take it elsewhere.

Judgmental. Right.

Let's review, yes?

I don't care about people using shrooms or acid or coke or whatever personally. It's absolutely their decision to make, and with any luck it's even an informed decision. More power to 'em. I might be a little annoyed by Wizard's posts tending to fixate on making things relate to shrooms, as it reminds me of the one-track minds of junkheads I've talked with otherwise, but I don't make a fuss about it because it's not really hurting anyone.

However, when someone comes here for support when they're going through a dark place and dealing with some goddamn heavy issues related to mental health, if you can't pull yourself out of your fungal obsession for long enough to act like a decent human being and do something -Jesus, anything- other than suggest that they too hop on the mushroom bandwagon because it'll expand your mind, man, then I have a problem.

And alright, the phrase "Eat your mushrooms" in a vacuum doesn't necessarily advocate the use of psychoactive mushrooms. Sure. It doesn't mean much of anything in a vacuum. We can freely ignore any association with a history of talking about how psilocybin is just the bees knees. Shit, with a good enough lawyer, that might just stand up in court.


That brings us to today's snippet. What was it I reacted to here?

Could've done without the last line, mate. Depression isn't caused by caffeine. If it were, I wouldn't have it.

Alcohol is good for sterilisation.

I recently had to stop my caffeine, had not reached the depths of addiction but I noticed a dependency, fought a few nights of restlessness and constant waking up never finding comfort. Then my dreams returned with every night and I'm able to wake up easier now.
As much as my advice will most probably go unheeded it will help with your problems.
The hardest part is the first few weeks of dropping any habit.
It might help to tell yourself that the change is not a lifetime change and becoming a 'clean' person forever etc. The exercise is to assess ones mindstates without the oppression these chemicals oppose onto our consciousness.
It may be seen as a better state to reside.
I can guarantee these fatigues you fleetingly described are symptoms of your substance abuse

There. The last line. The one that guarantees that what Hans is talking about is a symptom of caffeine and alcohol usage. Now I don't know about you, but I personally don't see a whole lot of wiggle room that allows for a person to be tired due to situational circumstances, actual underlying mental health issues, or really a whole lot of anything other than coffee and booze. Neither of which are even mentioned in Hans' post.

See the pattern? I don't give a fuck about mushrooms. I certainly don't give a fuck about reducing caffeine and alcohol intake. What I care about, and what gets my goddamn goat like a roided-up chupacabra, is disrespecting people's mental health to the point that you don't even listen to them and just make their suffering be about your own flagship topics.

[Yoink]

He didn't tell him to take shrooms. He told him to try reducing his alcohol and caffeine intake and not comparing his successes/setbacks to those of others, which seems like vague enough advice to be helpful to a fair few people in a bad place.

Here, I'll even provide a quote.

Stopping alcohol and caffeine consumption will help you with half of that, perhaps meditate on the thought of wrong. What is wrong? What is failure?
Don't let others tell you what is successful and righteous. Discover yourself.

People are jumping on him here and discounting his advice entirely based on things he's said in the past, in other conversations. I feel as though some of you didn't even read the whole discussion, just saw who was involved in it and jumped in.

Not sure how the hell any of that is supposed to help offer someone "support when they're going through a dark place".



Edit: Also, microdosing is a fairly well-documented thing. I can't speak as to its effectiveness since I have never tried such a thing, but the whole idea is to not experience the hallucinatory effects of the substance in question, whilst still receiving whatever psychological benefits it offers.

[scriver]

Here's the thing though. I've been thinking of cutting down my caffeine usage to see if it helps restore my energy somewhat. God knows I've been drinking coffee for the greater part of my life.

But the trouble is. Without coffee. What do you even drink in the morning?

[wierd]

Orange juice (in moderation)

Herbal tea

etc.

[Reelya]

Assuming conclusions due to post history.
This horse you rode in on seems to be the one im talking to, not the actual rider.
Neigh enough of that. I was simply here to offer help to someone who is hurting.
The fears and idealisms you hold onto will shape you in an image not of your choice. Tread the path of reductionist assumptions carefully. I care for you

Other people's point being, or should have been, do not give medical advice. you suggested SSRIs. SSRIs have a known suicide-increasing risk.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3353604/
It's really not good to throw out random medical advice if not qualified to do so. That can actually kill people, literally. It's just fortunate that the recommendation wasn't for something over the counter. For example, never suggest people should take aspirin. Aspirin deaths are pretty frequent - that stuff kills about 10 Americans per day. Point being why seemingly innocuous medical advice is best avoided.

[Yoink]

But the trouble is. Without coffee. What do you even drink in the morning?

Beer, obviously!
https://youtu.be/uEK9oK02D1M


@Reelya: I somehow really doubt he was asking whether they were on an SSRI in order to recommend one if they weren't... unless I missed the post where he actually suggested them?

[Reelya]

Do you want me to suggest something for your depression? Are you on any ssri?

The recommendation is definitely there, it's implicit. If you start bringing attention to one specific option, that's the same as advertising/shilling that option. The objection is like saying the question "Do you smoke Camel Cigarettes?" is just an innocent question and is in no way promoting Camel Cigarettes.

 The guy was clearly Playing Doctor, or attempting to, until other people derailed that.

And even if he wasn't "recommending" SSRIs, what was he going to do with the answer to that question? Obviously, he was planning to give medical advice based on the answer.

[Yoink]

Sure, the wording is kinda misleading without context, haha.
I doubt any sort of psychonaut would be extolling the virtues of SSRIs, though. In my experience folks who are into that sort of thing tend to be critical of them to some degree. 

I don't see what's wrong with offering advice, though.
Beats just promising "thoughts and prayers" or some such drek.

[Iduno]

I was ill going into daylight savings, then almost passed out at work for the first 4 hours, so I took a day and a half off to sleep. I have vague recollections of the past week. I also have something overdue for our new quarterly review thing at work, but it's new and I'm locked out of the program again.

Using caffeine does overall reduce your energy. Though, quitting it would probably be worse!

Solve that by injecting ATP directly into your mitochondrion.

Yup, I report people who are or appear to be in violation of the rules. A truly appallingly close-minded behaviour, I know, but what can I say? I enjoy being able to read the forums without too much vitriol, suggestion of illegal activity, or posts that can't even be considered off-topic because they're not completely comprehensible.

Y'know what they say about snitches... 🤷🏻

That reminds me. Is modblog still going? Because there are people who are into stitches.

There's evidence that it is effective...

Oh I'm aware. Believe me, I'm aware. Psilocybin, LSD, ketamine; I've been informed of a number of alternative treatments. Some that show a lot of promise!

Considering that there are other, safer drugs out there though

And therein lies the rub. I'm not saying it isn't potentially effective, I'm saying that there are potentially very severe side effects. And also saying that one should generally try to learn more about the situation before suggesting such alternatives.

You want to know about side effects of potentially-useful drugs, try combining anti-anxiety/depression meds with anything. Food, water, caffeine, not having caffeine, alcohol, sleep...

[Teneb]

Not exactly a sad, but it's the most appropriate thread:

Yesterday was the hottest day of the year here, and it isn't even summer yet. Apparent temperature was around 50C, dunno actual temperature but it was around 40.

[CABL]

It's not technically today's sad, but fuck, it was living hell. I couldn't sleep properly for two days straight, and I had good sleep only today.

[TD1]

Orange juice (in moderation)

Herbal tea

etc.

Extreme moderation. If it must be juice, squeeze your own. For greatest health benefits simply eat an orange.

I also don't recommend milk, though again if you must take it then whole milk may be best.

Personally I just have water and/or tea. I stopped having issues with caffeine when I cut out energy drinks - now a cup of tea perks me up without putting me on a cycle of energy crashes.