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[SalmonGod]

I studied Buddhism, too.  Took a class with a teacher who was very deep in it.  Read a few books.  Visited local Buddhist centers to listen to talks and practice meditation.  I don't 100% agree with everything (I mainly struggle with the concept of abandoning identity), but have a deep appreciation for it.

I'm pretty damn sure they don't teach in any way whatsoever that life is worthless.  In fact, I find them to be the most life affirming religion that I know anything about.  Most other religions preach that life is some temporary bullshit you have to put up with while waiting for some promised afterlife.  Tibetan Buddhism specifically teaches that we are reincarnated and granted life over and over again until we learn enlightenment.  That life has such inherent value that you literally can't escape it until you've derived that value from it.

Also, Joshua, there were no nerves touched.  No worries.

[EnigmaticHat]

If I understand Buddhism right, part of the uptake for reincarnation is that if you make life worse for any group of living things, even a type of animal, you might be reincarnate as them.  So in the extreme long view everyone shares the same happiness and sadness.

[wierd]

It is more "cycle of karma", with some sects believing you can escape it, and others saying you cannot.

Every action, (or even, decisions toward inaction) has a natural karmic consequence. Karma ALWAYS manifests-- it just might not happen now, or even 10,000 years from now. The consequences of your life choices now might influence your next life, or even your next 100 lives. Typically, actions that cause harm, suffering, or burden to other living creatures produces negative karma, which pushes you "downward" through the realms of existence.  The human world is kind of special, because it is neither a celestial heaven, nor a naraka hell. As such, it is a unique place where there is a lot of trans-migration both ways, and where lots of karma of either type can be accumulated.

The more hardcore followers are so devoted to avoiding bad karma (and instead, accruing good karma), that they eat only plants, avoid stepping on insects, etc... / and or-- so devoted to escaping the cycle of rebirth, that they devote themselves entirely to seeking dissolution of the self.

More normal people will avoid meat produced in cruel conditions, or that suffered pain or duress while it was butchered, but are otherwise OK with eating meat-- etc-- as well as being mindful not to be hurtful or callous to the needs of others, even others that cannot be directly seen or interacted with, like hungry ghosts.

I am personally of the opinion that I do not need a karmic reward for doing what is right; If a person is starving from existential hunger, find a way to help them get reliable food. If they are cold, get them warm clothes and a place to stay, etc.  Living things have every right to live as any other living thing, and that life should not be expunged for selfish and foolish reasons. etc.  I dont need a palace in heaven, or be swayed by seeking a privileged birth in the next incarnation, or any such thing. I get pleasure now, by doing the right thing, and that is sufficient and ample reward.

[SalmonGod]

It varies a lot between different Buddhist sects... but from what I recall of Tibetan Buddhism, Karma was definitely a thing, but didn't seem so much like a system of rewards and punishments.  It was described to me as more like your reincarnations are geared towards providing you the experiences you need to attain your enlightened self.  If your most recent incarnation is dominated by a particular character flaw, your next will be something related to that flaw.

[Yoink]

Implicit in the idea of "experiencing life," is the idea of *new* experiences.

I don't agree that that's the case.

Well, do you level up after doing enough of it??

Spoiler: Confused, meandering, sunstroke-flavoured discourse on religions that you probably shouldn't bother reading idk (click to show/hide)

 Re: Buddhism, it has a lot of positive impact and I definitely understand the appeal of its teachings, but one of my biggest gripes with it as well as Hinduism (and Jainism and various other -isms) is the idea of needing the threat of unpleasant future incarnations to inspire one to do good.
I mean, I'm not even an atheist like many of you, and I definitely appreciate the number of vegetarians and vegans produced by these religions (and damn, Indian food is bloody tasty!), but why does there have to be a threat of one day winding up in the animals' hooves for folks to realise how they are exploited is wrong?

Obviously, this has turned into a bit of an animal rights rant since it's probably the thing I care most about, but I'm sure this consideration applies to other topics as well.
Um. I can't remember where I was going with this. It is very hot today and I just got back from grocery shopping. I think I'mma just throw this confusing mess in a spoiler and go eat some ice cream. Bleehhh.


Bonus ramble that was excised from earlier in the text due to being "too off-topic"(ha!):
     I mean, I'm even less knowledgeable about Buddhism, but from my limited understanding of Hinduism every creature is on its way through an extremely long journey of enlightenment, gathering spiritual power or whatever throughout their endless incarnations before finally hitting the jackpot/nirvana or whatever. Wouldn't it then be kindest to stomp every bug you see, thus speeding your fellow eternal beings along on their journey?         

[SalmonGod]

Just learned that the guitarist/vocalist of Boom Boom Satellites died in 2016 from his brain tumors

I was very much a fan.  Hadn't checked in on them in a few years, but been listening to their stuff since 2004.

[Hanslanda]

Another frustratingly depressed day. Don't have the energy to eloquently describe it, so I shall be colloquial. It fucking sucks. I'm irritable and sad and fucking tired of being sad and its making me more irritable and I want people to notice but I'm so checked out on trying to communicate my status that I just want to be left the fuck alone. I got medication I'm not taking that helps but I don't want to take it for a multiplicity of reasons, foremost being I want another child and I can't seal the deal normally half the time, much less when the minuscule amount of feeling I have left is deadened with SSRIs.

So I just feel argh. I want to not feel this way but the trade off is taking one of the only things I find true meaning in out of my life. Cliche to say, but it's not fucking fair.

And yesterday I was doing research and realized the true extent of discrimination I can expect now that I'm openly atheist, which adds a whole other set of emotional turmoil to my already strained to breaking point mind.

In short, an exceptionally emphatic exclamation, "Fuck, man. Fuck all of this."

[martinuzz]

Implicit in the idea of "experiencing life," is the idea of *new* experiences.

I don't agree that that's the case.

Well, do you level up after doing enough of it??

Spoiler: Confused, meandering, sunstroke-flavoured discourse on religions that you probably shouldn't bother reading idk (click to show/hide)

 Re: Buddhism, it has a lot of positive impact and I definitely understand the appeal of its teachings, but one of my biggest gripes with it as well as Hinduism (and Jainism and various other -isms) is the idea of needing the threat of unpleasant future incarnations to inspire one to do good.
I mean, I'm not even an atheist like many of you, and I definitely appreciate the number of vegetarians and vegans produced by these religions (and damn, Indian food is bloody tasty!), but why does there have to be a threat of one day winding up in the animals' hooves for folks to realise how they are exploited is wrong?

Obviously, this has turned into a bit of an animal rights rant since it's probably the thing I care most about, but I'm sure this consideration applies to other topics as well.
Um. I can't remember where I was going with this. It is very hot today and I just got back from grocery shopping. I think I'mma just throw this confusing mess in a spoiler and go eat some ice cream. Bleehhh.


Bonus ramble that was excised from earlier in the text due to being "too off-topic"(ha!):
     I mean, I'm even less knowledgeable about Buddhism, but from my limited understanding of Hinduism every creature is on its way through an extremely long journey of enlightenment, gathering spiritual power or whatever throughout their endless incarnations before finally hitting the jackpot/nirvana or whatever. Wouldn't it then be kindest to stomp every bug you see, thus speeding your fellow eternal beings along on their journey?         

Buddhism is overrated. In practice, is just as woman oppressing and patriarchal as most other religions.

[TamerVirus]

For that comment, you will now be reincarnated as a land cucumber instead of a sea cucumber!

[scriver]

The thing that makes me the most leery about Buddhism is that to have a chance to achieve desertification you basically have to live off of other people's labour. Never trust a religion that says that you, the peasant, have to support the Priviledged Class, but that you as a peasant have no chance to nirvanise because you spend all your time labouring instead of sitting with your head up your arse in a temple somewhere.

[Frumple]

Grandfather finally straight pissed on the bathroom floor, instead of just missing a bit. Near the point he can't figure out how to use a toilet anymore. Already takes upward an hour or more to figure out how to get out a goddamn chair if someone doesn't help. Cognitive malfunctioning has massively accelerated since december and seems to be continuing to get worse. Primary doc says it's just normal aging. Bullshit. Jesus fuck I've seen normal aging and this ain't it even for someone about to hit 90.

Might hurt people if we can't get him to a fucking doctor that'll at least sodding check for brain damage of some sort, pretty soon. We're pretty sure he's had a stroke or two in the last few years but for some fucking reason no one besides me has been pushing to actually look. Person supposed to be handling it apparently sat on their ass for days and then lost the paperwork for attempt 1.

Can understand they got their own problems, but I pretty literally can't fucking handle this stuff. Don't have the fiscal resources, legal authority, technical capability/experience, or physical condition. Still getting the efforts foisted onto me. Owe grandparents more than just about anyone, so I'm trying anyway, but shit. Watching someone go this fast is unpleasant as all hell, especially when you're being largely left out in the cold so far as care goes.

[wierd]

Grandfather finally straight pissed on the bathroom floor, instead of just missing a bit. Near the point he can't figure out how to use a toilet anymore. Already takes upward an hour or more to figure out how to get out a goddamn chair if someone doesn't help. Cognitive malfunctioning has massively accelerated since december and seems to be continuing to get worse. Primary doc says it's just normal aging. Bullshit. Jesus fuck I've seen normal aging and this ain't it even for someone about to hit 90.

Might hurt people if we can't get him to a fucking doctor that'll at least sodding check for brain damage of some sort, pretty soon. We're pretty sure he's had a stroke or two in the last few years but for some fucking reason no one besides me has been pushing to actually look. Person supposed to be handling it apparently sat on their ass for days and then lost the paperwork for attempt 1.

Can understand they got their own problems, but I pretty literally can't fucking handle this stuff. Don't have the fiscal resources, legal authority, technical capability/experience, or physical condition. Still getting the efforts foisted onto me. Owe grandparents more than just about anyone, so I'm trying anyway, but shit. Watching someone go this fast is unpleasant as all hell, especially when you're being largely left out in the cold so far as care goes.

As somebody currently working in a nursing home, working with people with dementia----

DEMENTIA IS NOT NATURAL AGING.

You should keep your mind until the day your body shuts down and you die. If your mind is falling apart, there is a pathology in your nervous system of some kind, and that is not normal aging.

Frumple, what state do you live in? I might be able to help you locate resources for elder advocacy that can light some fires.

PBS has some well known ones, but a local one that better knows the law in your state would serve you best.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/caringforyourparents/caregiver/stayingactive/caregiverampelderadvocacy.html

[Hanslanda]

Frumple is a Floridian. /stalker

Or as some may know them, Australian Lite.

[wierd]

That is very helpful.

http://elderaffairs.state.fl.us/doea/legal_services.php
https://clsmf.org/services/seniors/

I can hunt for more later, but I need to sleep now.

[Frumple]

Pretty sure we've been working through one or both of those, actually, though most of the efforts so far have been through VA and some local stuff. Lot of the frustration at the mo' is trying to get the people with actual legal/financial weight to get stuff done (which largely isn't me, or we'd either be in a much better situation right now or dealing with an internecine apocalypse after I set parts of my immediate family on fire), when for reasons varied (and not all inexcusable or somethin', mind) they were lollygagging around and then the cognitive issues took a dose of racecar nitro.

Pulling out the mop for the first time on the issue just got to me a bit, I guess. Been a bit rough the last few days trying to dissuade the 88 year old that can't figure out the four buttons on a lift chair control in under a half hour from trying to get in a car and drive around town (or out of it), among other things.

... still, definitely thanks for the links. I'll make sure to hit the people primarily (able to be) dealing with the paperwork over the head with 'em, if they haven't already seen them.

E: also yeeaah. Basically all of them, if lightly with some. Bleh.

E2: ... yeah, pretty sure sitting in the passenger seat of one of the vehicles trying to plug a cell charger into a phone that doesn't work anymore, believing it's how to roll the windows down, ticks off one of those warning signs. Dealt with that, in any case.