Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Amperzand]

I've often found the whole discussion of "purpose" to be silly. We're here basically to increase entropy long enough to breed, then serve our children until we're no longer useful. We aren't "meant" to do anything above or beyond that. As far as our "purpose" goes, we should still be nomadic mammoth-hunters.

In my view what matters isn't what we're "supposed" to do, so much as what we're capable of doing, our potential to accomplish things. Figure out what you think the next good step is, and take it. Then the next, and the next, until you've done something incredible.

[BlackHeartKabal]

Well, what if I want to change? To change the world? Break the cycle of entropy?

[TheBiggerFish]

Then do that.  Work miracles.  If you can disprove the Second Law of Thermodynamics, you will officially be awesome.

[Amperzand]

Then figure out the first step. My point was that what you're "meant" to do doesn't matter nearly as much as what you can do, and want to do.

[Helgoland]

Well, what if I want to change? To change the world? Break the cycle of entropy?

Go buy an explosive vest.

I'm half serious with that: 'Purpose' and 'meaning' pretty much imply the existence of something much more important than your own life. You haven't found a purpose if you're not willing to sacrifice yourself for it: Ask any devoted parent how far they'd go to for their children.

[wobbly]

Well, what if I want to change? To change the world? Break the cycle of entropy?

Go buy an explosive vest.

I'm half serious with that: 'Purpose' and 'meaning' pretty much imply the existence of something much more important than your own life. You haven't found a purpose if you're not willing to sacrifice yourself for it: Ask any devoted parent how far they'd go to for their children.

Is this 'sposed to be a good thing? Ask that same "devoted parent" how many other parents children they'd sacrifice for their own. (Also only half serious)

[miauw62]

i am frustrated all the time and i dont see any way to change my situation. am i just going to feel like shit for two more years while everyone else is actually social and enjoying things?

ive been trying for so long. no progress, no results. why would i ever even go out of my comfort zone if all it ever causes is failure and frustration?

[Harry Baldman]

What is my purpose?

It's a more interesting question than one would think. People tend to latch on to the wrong operative word here, which would be 'purpose'. A better thing to ask is what you mean by 'my'.

What are you? A self-replicating bundle of chemical reactions has the purpose of reproducing itself as efficiently and adaptively as possible. A god-fearing Christian has the purpose of living well so that they may meet Judgment Day without trepidation. A man ought to demonstrate functional independence and generally get their shit together for the benefit of people who might one day depend on them, and a woman ought to do much the same as society demands. A child has the purpose of growing up. A Nobel Prize aspirant has the purpose of profoundly changing a field of science with their work. A member of a family supports and extends their range of relatives. An artist has the purpose of stimulating human nature. A consumer furthers the cycle of creation and destruction, and in a capitalistic society feeds those who feed them in turn. A parasite adapts to its host to further its own agenda, possibly culminating in mutually beneficial, or at least mutually non-harmful partnerships over many generations. A student exists to learn. An addict exists to feed a habit. Purpose depends on identity.

If you have an opinion on what you might be, your purpose ought to become that much clearer. Some of your purposes will also probably be more important than others.

[Worldmaster27]

i know this is late but im really sorry @C, i hope you'll be able to find some really good people there too, and hopefully you can get to some place far better than it following

im really sorry to everyone dealing with hard shit right now, i hope everything picks up for you guys

in my own personal sads i feel like i can feel myself breaking apart and down and everything but outwardly im having a very difficult time expressing much emotion or communicating about this stuff with my friends, although i suppose its for the best since making them deal with my problems is manipulative and im a bad person weeeeee also i am wayu too far fucking much dependent on a particular person and like idk i feel terrible because i like obsess over them i guess and everythings !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! like i dont know it doesnt matter alkso im fucking exhausted please excuse my rambling and inanity, and i got yelled at for treying to take a nap when i should be studying because School and Grades lioterally my ownly perpose in life

hell yeah

[Helgoland]

Is this 'sposed to be a good thing? Ask that same "devoted parent" how many other parents children they'd sacrifice for their own. (Also only half serious)

Well yeah. Pretty much all good things mankind has created or achieved only came into being because folks cared more about an issue than about themselves. Look at our entire culture: Who are our heroes? What makes them great?
The only counterexample I can think of is Brecht's Leben des Galilei - and even there it's not really clear-cut.

And yeah, with a certain disregard for one's own life comes a disregard for that of others, too. The Russian terrorists of the Tsarist era had this as part of their ethos: Their readiness to die themselves legitimized their killing various high officials - blood washes off blood, so to speak. That's why they only ever threw bombs, and never planted them.
Consider the following: Do you think it's justifiable to advocate a war you'd not be willing to fight in yourself? The defining feature of any moral code is that moral judgements have to be universalizable: If you were in the other guy's place, you need to still consider the action moral. That's essentially what Kant's categorical imperative says.
Man, I sound like a pretentious douche. Good thing I'm not running for president, eh? Intellectualism ain't that popular.

[apiks]

I remembered a family friend whom I grew up with and was very close to (he was like a third father to me) died last summer. My own actual father died when I was 12.

And my maternal grandpa who is like a second father to me is nearing his 90s and at this point it's just a wait for his death, even though he's a pretty healthy individual. I've started seeing him more often lately along with my grandma, but it's as if he's already dead. That's how I feel.

I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that I can never get over people whom I was genuinely close to and have left my life against my will (either through death or other reasons). I do not mourn the dead. I don't cry about them. They're just there, in a state of existence in my memories. As if they've moved somewhere far away and I will never see them again. That's what death feels for me. Only when I see the body does the reality hit me, and even then it passes after everything's done and they're laid to rest.

And then you have the people that are still living, however are out of my life and I just can't get over, no matter how much I try. They're not an obsession anymore but just a stalking ghost of the past, always there to haunt me from time to time, never going away.

Never will I get over those people. Forever ingrained in my mind, never to leave until my last breath.

Spoiler: Minor Wheel of Time spoiler (click to show/hide)

I feel like Rand when he remembers every maiden who has died in his name.

[wobbly]

Well I'll try not to derail the sad thread much further but this one is too hilarious to pass up without at least making a small comment:

Look at our entire culture: Who are our heroes? What makes them great?

The joke is you're a German (I think I got that right) talking to an Australian. Reread what you posted from my perspective. Look at our entire culture: Who are our heroes? What makes them great?

On a more serious note.

Well yeah. Pretty much all good things mankind has created or achieved only came into being because folks cared more about an issue than about themselves.

Art. Good Food. Wine. Planes. Games. Sports. yada yada yada. I can think of a bucket load of good things mankind has achieved that have been created for both selfish or selfless reasons. Long story short I find the statement overly simplistic. If you dropped the "all" from it I'd agree with it. I'd also have to add that the inverse is true (again with out the all & some adjustments). "Mankind achieves bad things when it cares more about the issue then themselves (pluralized)"

Consider the following: Do you think it's justifiable to advocate a war you'd not be willing to fight in yourself?

Simple answer: yes. Stop thinking about philosophy & quoting Kant for a moment & look at the people in the real world. You'll find plenty of people doing exactly that.

[Helgoland]

The joke is you're a German (I think I got that right) talking to an Australian. Reread what you posted from my perspective. Look at our entire culture: Who are our heroes? What makes them great?

Killing Turks, I guess. And risking their ass while doing so - that's the main point.

Well yeah. Pretty much all good things mankind has created or achieved only came into being because folks cared more about an issue than about themselves.

Art. Good Food. Wine. Planes. Games. Sports. yada yada yada. I can think of a bucket load of good things mankind has achieved that have been created for both selfish or selfless reasons. Long story short I find the statement overly simplistic. If you dropped the "all" from it I'd agree with it. I'd also have to add that the inverse is true (again with out the all & some adjustments). "Mankind achieves bad things when it cares more about the issue then themselves (pluralized)"

I agree - as it is written, the statement has problems. Dropping 'and' is not how I'd fix this though - I'd rather replace 'good' with 'great', and then work out a definition of 'great' that fits the bill.
A lot of what you listed is an example for my statement though. Take art: It's a common truism that Art Is Suffering. It's a wrong truism, sure - but it does contain a germ of truth. You don't produce great art as a happy, fulfilled, content person who gets laid three times a week - at most you produce pretty decoration. Great art needs a special sort of drive behind it. Without that sort of drive, why would anyone choose a career like that, with shitty job prospects, marginal chances of success, and almost certainly a lifetime of poverty and - eventually - ridicule?

Turning the statement around is interesting, I agree - and yes, it does work just as well. I think someone said once - I don't remember who - that ideas can lead to inhumane things because ideas simply aren't human. Hell, there's a considerable amount of overlap in the examples for both statements: A lot of the time a disregard for oneself translates into disregard for others, too. How many artists, for example, had a messed-up private life and treated people like shit?

Consider the following: Do you think it's justifiable to advocate a war you'd not be willing to fight in yourself?

Simple answer: yes. Stop thinking about philosophy & quoting Kant for a moment & look at the people in the real world. You'll find plenty of people doing exactly that.

How do you justify it, then? How do you justify that others should die, but you shouldn't*? Plenty of folks doing it is hardly an indicator for it being good or even just logically consistent. Hell, if nobody did it I wouldn't have to think about it. That's why I apply philosophy and refer to Kant: I'm interested in the how and why, not in the who.
By the way, I resent the populist appeal of 'people in the real world'. Please don't do that.


*I'm not talking about immediately enlisting as soon as you support an intervention somewhere. I'm talking about accepting the draft notice instead of pulling a Reagan.


E: Are more people interested in the topic? Maybe we should start a new thread instead of cluttering this one.

[Orange Wizard]

The joke is you're a German (I think I got that right) talking to an Australian. Reread what you posted from my perspective. Look at our entire culture: Who are our heroes? What makes them great?

Killing Turks, I guess. And risking their ass while doing so - that's the main point.

That wasn't killing Turks, that was getting killed by Turks.

[chaotic skies]

So. My girlfriend broke up with me. Less than surprised; I'm an annoying ass most days, and I hate myself for it. But that wasn't the reason. The reason was that I was hanging out with her lesbian cousin, and she...felt jealous? I don't know.
Here's the conversation we had:

"Oh, hey. I'm breaking up with you because you're flirting with [REDACTED]."
"[REDACTED] is lesbian. Besides, she reminds me of my sister. Why would I flirt with my sister?"
"I don't know. Either way, I'm breaking up with you."
So now I don't know what to do, feel like shit, am pissed at myself, lashing out at others, feeling guilty about it, and telling people I only know through the internet this before I tell anyone else. Because...I'm hoping she changes her mind? Fuck if I know. At this point, I've lost everything too many times. I don't feel anything anymore, really. No "real" happiness. No "real" sadness. No "real" anger. Just...emptiness.