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[Tawa]

"He was a loathsome, gorilla-like thing, with abnormally long arms which I could not help calling fore legs, and a face that conjured up thoughts of unspeakable congo secrets and tom-tom poundings under an eerie moon. He must have looked worse in life-but the world holds many ugly things."

I'm gunna go with whoever you were arguing with on this one.

Edit: Unless Lovecraft was like, really really really supremely racist, in which case I guess his stories could just be really really really racist, and thus less racist them him. That would make sense I guess.

Well, to be fair, Lovecraft himself hated that one.

But I suppose that still doesn't excuse the one with the cat N*****-man.

[Calidovi]

"He was a loathsome, gorilla-like thing, with abnormally long arms which I could not help calling fore legs, and a face that conjured up thoughts of unspeakable congo secrets and tom-tom poundings under an eerie moon. He must have looked worse in life-but the world holds many ugly things."

I'm gunna go with whoever you were arguing with on this one.

Edit: Unless Lovecraft was like, really really really supremely racist, in which case I guess his stories could just be really really really racist, and thus less racist them him. That would make sense I guess.

Well, to be fair, Lovecraft himself hated that one.

But I suppose that still doesn't excuse the one with the cat Nigger-man.

Your language, my friend.

[Tawa]

No, he named the cat that. Not making this up.

But if you insist I'll asterisk-out the rest of the word.

[Spehss _]

"He was a loathsome, gorilla-like thing, with abnormally long arms which I could not help calling fore legs, and a face that conjured up thoughts of unspeakable congo secrets and tom-tom poundings under an eerie moon. He must have looked worse in life-but the world holds many ugly things."

I'm gunna go with whoever you were arguing with on this one.

Edit: Unless Lovecraft was like, really really really supremely racist, in which case I guess his stories could just be really really really racist, and thus less racist them him. That would make sense I guess.

Well, to be fair, Lovecraft himself hated that one.

But I suppose that still doesn't excuse the one with the cat Nigger-man.

What, Lovecraft hated that description?

And hey, naming a black cat that seems totally reasonable for that time period. I mean, it is a black male cat. And Lovecraft's character loved that cat. Was his favorite cat. Hardly seems the main character (and by proxy Lovecraft himself) would've named the cat that if he meant for the name to be bad or hateful.

[TempAcc]

Well, Lovecraft did have a certain distate for the non white races, so there's that. The historical setting certainly is to blame for part of his behavior, but it didn't stem from that alone.

[Criptfeind]

I'm not sure if calling a cat nigger-man is super racist, maybe a bit... But basically every time lovecraft (or his characters or narrator at least) describe someone who's not at least a upper middle class white person it's almost always in a insulting way. The stories are racist, classist, and probably a bunch of other ists. (sea creaturist?). It's sorta a funny product of the time. sorta thing I guess. It doesn't bug me for the most part, but it's certainly there.

[Arx]

Had a three hour chemistry practical session today. Can't get the ester and cyclohexene fumes out of my head.

[Caz]

I'm not sure if calling a cat nigger-man is super racist, maybe a bit... But basically every time lovecraft (or his characters or narrator at least) describe someone who's not at least a upper middle class white person it's almost always in a insulting way. The stories are racist, classist, and probably a bunch of other ists. (sea creaturist?). It's sorta a funny product of the time. sorta thing I guess. It doesn't bug me for the most part, but it's certainly there.

eh, in the 30s-40s calling a pet cat or dog 'nigger' was quite common.

[Tawa]

What, Lovecraft hated that description?

No, he hated the story itself. It was a Frankenstein ripoff, if memory serves.

[Spehss _]

What, Lovecraft hated that description?

No, he hated the story itself. It was a Frankenstein ripoff, if memory serves.

Heh. I just reread that story recently and thoroughly enjoyed it. I think what he hated was writing it in the episodic format where he had to go back and summarize past events at the start of the next chapter.


Back to the racist lovecraft discussion, he definitely was racist. Many of his stories have themes of ancestral heritage and racial purity or impurity. And there are descriptions of minorities or non-whites that are clearly impolite.

However, he wasn't super extreme bigot tier racist. I don't think he ever mandated for the extermination of "lesser races" or requested that the government kick "lesser races" out of the country or anything.

EDIT: Um. Added quotation marks around "lesser races". Because I realized it could sound too literal without quotation marks. _{^{I'm not racist plznohate.}}

[Rose]

Circumstances dictate that I have to wait another 10 days or so until my family is back together.

[itisnotlogical]

What, Lovecraft hated that description?

No, he hated the story itself. It was a Frankenstein ripoff, if memory serves.

Heh. I just reread that story recently and thoroughly enjoyed it. I think what he hated was writing it in the episodic format where he had to go back and summarize past events at the start of the next chapter.


Back to the racist lovecraft discussion, he definitely was racist. Many of his stories have themes of ancestral heritage and racial purity or impurity. And there are descriptions of minorities or non-whites that are clearly impolite.

However, he wasn't super extreme bigot tier racist. I don't think he ever mandated for the extermination of "lesser races" or requested that the government kick "lesser races" out of the country or anything.

EDIT: Um. Added quotation marks around "lesser races". Because I realized it could sound too literal without quotation marks. _{^{I'm not racist plznohate.}}

"Shadow Over Innsmouth" is one of the classic Lovecraft stories that people forget is about the dangers of race-mixing. African tribes star as villains in quite a few stories, as well. Lovecraft stories are cooler for the genre they started, rather than the stories themselves.

[Spehss _]

"Shadow Over Innsmouth" is one of the classic Lovecraft stories that people forget is about the dangers of race-mixing. African tribes star as villains in quite a few stories, as well. Lovecraft stories are cooler for the genre they started, rather than the stories themselves.

Innsmouth falls under the category of "themes of ancestral heritage and racial purity or impurity" which I was describing. Specifically, Innsmouth is the whole "impurity" by way of interspecies breeding with fish people. Yeah, it's probably symbolism for inter-racial mixing and stuff.

Lovecraft also used racial degeneracy and devolution. Sometimes it was through "mixing" with things such as fish people or humanoid apes from the congos. And sometimes it was through inbreeding of rural hillfolk living in the far away backwaters of New England, descended from colonial people. In other words, white people. White dudes weren't safe from Lovecraft's writing.

I think his racism was rooted in his fear of people losing their traditional ways in society. Racial mixing, cultural appropriation, and mingling with immigrants and minorities all "threaten" to make people forget their "traditions". Therefore, to Lovecraft, immigrants=bad and because usually immigrants=minorities then minorities=bad. Minorities=bad falls under the view of racism. Actually, according to the definition of racism, Lovecraft's entire viewpoint of preserving traditions which are rooted in race falls under racism, which is "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race". What's a characteristic? Cultural traditions.

[TempAcc]

Also, in lovecraft's stories, people of "mixed race" are usualy the first to fall under the influence of the old ones/whatever other antogonistic force is afoot. I think he outright mentions it during The Call of Cthulhu.

His prejudice wasn't exactly focused on race by itself, though, he also showed prejudice for country or "simple" folk, specially in The Colour From Out of Space, even though most of the characters in that short story consisted of a rural family.

He's quite explicit about it in certain points, but he doesn't mention it when its not necessary (as in, he doesn't go out of his way to show it in his novels, at least when its not relevant), like in At The Mountains of Madness, in which every character is a caucasian scientist of sorts, and celebrated in one way or another.

Anyway, the feeling I got from Lovecraft is that he hated "ignorant" people, and due to the prejudices that ran amok at the time, that often got tangled with racial views. He did really believe in things such as racial superiority and degeneration, though, but that was also a common theme of the time.

[Arx]

Also, in lovecraft's stories, people of "mixed race" are usualy the first to fall under the influence of the old ones/whatever other antogonistic force is afoot. I think he outright mentions it during The Call of Cthulhu.

Rest in peace Cape Town whenever the Old Gods rise.

* Arx moves city again.