Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[AlleeCat]

^ Yup, just about.

[IcyTea31]

Usually, if I can help it, I just use names and alternate expressions to avoid using pronouns altogether.

For example, I would narrate some recent posts as follows:

"Worldmaster27 mentioned editing a previous post to fix misgendering, and recalling a discussion about which pronouns to use when referring to Vector. WM27 apologized and promised to try to respect that in the future. AlleeCat was thankful for this, and wished more people would try and respect the wishes of gender minorities. Rolan7 agreed, speaking of how useful plural pronouns are for the purpose, as they don't emphasize gender, and then suggested people with nonbinary genders mention this in their signatures, lest innocent mistakes may be made. Though accidental due to regular use of plural pronouns, correctly gendering Vector in the hug thread also made Rolan7 glad."

[Bohandas]

And then when they ask for a shred of respect it's all "you get enough respect, don't ask for special treatment"

In their defense, a general rule of thumb I don't respect anyone, not even myself, so respect is special treatment.

[Orange Wizard]

It's true! Bohandas is one of the least respectful people I know.

[IcyTea31]

There is an interesting saying around where I live:

"Rispekt is not kiven. It is teiken." [sic]

Still, one doesn't need to respect another to give them a fair hearing, only to tolerate them. Even if I hate someone, I listen to what they have to say before deciding to stop listening because they have nothing relevant to say.

[Tiruin]

And then when they ask for a shred of respect it's all "you get enough respect, don't ask for special treatment"

In their defense, a general rule of thumb I don't respect anyone, not even myself, so respect is special treatment.

Special treatment if unapplied?
If the idea of not respecting anyone is taken literally...then somehow we all have this special treatment here. So I'm confused.
And you pretty much do practice respect, even unspoken or unworded, while here.

It's analogically like the example Caroline gave. The difference of meaning lies in how the word or idea is interacted with, or taken, or on how it is interpreted (because signals are a crucial component to communication, and interpretations are how you give definition to these signals).
In her example--all the below from her first sentence describes nothing about the term in particular, but how the idea is worked with.

Still, one doesn't need to respect another to give them a fair hearing, only to tolerate them. Even if I hate someone, I listen to what they have to say before deciding to stop listening because they have nothing relevant to say.

Isn't...that also saying that hate affects how you listen? ._.

[Bauglir]

Nobody willing to complain for multiple pages, or on multiple occasions, can possibly use the inconvenience of pronoun choice or special treatment as a reason why they shouldn't have to do it. I mean, seriously, it's way easier and faster to just go with it, especially when you're conversing by forum and don't have any of those pesky preconceptions based on body type being flagged by your vision. Shit, guys, I made the same mistake and didn't fix it until this morning. I spent less than one measly minute to do this.

I mean, if you misremember somebody's name, that's one thing. But if you go on to insist, "No, it doesn't really matter, I'm going to keep calling you Jeff, deal with it", then something rather strange is going on.

In unrelated news, good luck to Cryxis' grandmother. I ain't got much to say there. Just hope she comes out of this okay.

[Tack]

Well I'm a typical male who gives preferential treatment to anything which could possibly make me feel yummy.
So really if I referred to Everyone as female the world around me would be a better place. Albeit slightly confused.

But you go on to insist, "No, it doesn't really matter, I'm going to keep calling you Jeff, deal with it".

This is something which happens ALL the time. Not just in sitcoms either. Some of our friends have some of the coolest nicknames because a name was misheard.
I mean, the metaphor is still good, was just throwing this out here.

Vector has made it fairly clear that they wish to go by they/them.

You've got to remember that in big threads like these, if someone is back a couple of pages, 90% of us will just skip straight to the end.
So a lot of information either falls through the cracks or is forgotten. A simple reminder would probably do better than thrown handfuls of feminine indignation.


Actually, forgive my macabre curiosity, but I've always wondered if trans people get a secret thrill from getting gender-biased derogoratives thrown at them.
Like grouping someone in with the 'all men are pigs' or 'all women are emotionally unstable' stereotypes. It's inclusion, but in a backhanded fashion.
Just curious. If I could make someone happy by being abrasive and generalist, frankly I'd marry them.

[Yoink]

I have to wait three hours or so for the first train home. I could probably walk home in that time if I knew the way.
Oh, and I can hear roosters crowing merrily away in the distance. It's like they're taunting me. I just need to get some sleep so I have energy for tomorrow.

[Rolan7]

Vector has made it fairly clear that they wish to go by they/them.

You've got to remember that in big threads like these, if someone is back a couple of pages, 90% of us will just skip straight to the end.
So a lot of information either falls through the cracks or is forgotten. A simple reminder would probably do better than thrown handfuls of feminine indignation.

This was kinda my point about innocent mistakes, and why a notice for unusual cases might be helpful.  I've at least skimmed every post in this thread for... months I guess, and I still forgot.  I just happened to speak that way anyway, about almost everyone.
(It's not just feminine indignation though, I mean, it isn't even in this particular case)

Actually, forgive my macabre curiosity, but I've always wondered if trans people get a secret thrill from getting gender-biased derogoratives thrown at them.
Like grouping someone in with the 'all men are pigs' or 'all women are emotionally unstable' stereotypes. It's inclusion, but in a backhanded fashion.
Just curious. If I could make someone happy by being abrasive and generalist, frankly I'd marry them.

You could just noun "derogative" (yes I just verbed "noun" (yes I just verbed "verb")).

I get a small thrill from being mistaken for female.  But, I'm a somewhat fluid cis male with no dysphoria.  It's mostly funny because I act a bit ambiguous (IE, naturally for me), and people jump to conclusions.
If I had dysphoria, I don't think it'd be funny or thrilling...  It might be a little comforting to be correctly identified, but also disheartening to be denigrated as a result.  I don't really know though, since my personal identity de-emphasizes gender.  While for most people gender is incredibly important.

Haha what the hell am I even talking about.  I feel like I just made a drunk post, except I'm completely sober, in fact I'm riding a completed-assignment high.
Oh, it's because I opened up at all about my personal feelings.  Which I only do while drunk.  Okay, I think that counts as a sad.
Edit: (yes I just nouned an adjective)

[Bohandas]

I don't really know though, since my personal identity de-emphasizes gender.  While for most people gender is incredibly important.

Good! That means that you are more lucid than most people.

[Graknorke]

While for most people gender is incredibly important.

I wouldn't say most people. Most trans people maybe, but not most of everybody.

[Helgoland]

Most people who don't have problems with it on a regular basis are pretty chill about it, I guess. But I think that applies to everyone, and to every issue.

[Bauglir]

I dunno about it being unimportant. In my experience, most guys would have some pretty major complaints if they had to put on a dress for whatever reason. And it would be largely because of a mismatch between their gender identity and what wearing a dress signals socially.

Helgo's got it more on the mark, I think; they're pretty chill about it because they don't have problems with it often, and that's something that applies to every issue. It's important, but since it doesn't really come up often it's not important that it's important, if you see what I mean. It's pretty important that your booze not have dangerous amounts of methanol in it, but it comes up so rarely that most people aren't going to spend time fussing over making sure that what they buy in the supermarket will leave their powers of sight intact. But if somebody's making their own moonshine I can pretty well understand why they'd give a fuck.

EDIT: Just because I haven't said so, I do prefer the "polite reminder" model. Ordinarily, there's a point at which that becomes "We've known each other for three years, Carl" silly, but forums are so amorphous that they're kind of an exception. Since we're basically putting up billboards, it's not really fair for me to assume that there's a longstanding relationship between any two given posters that would have crossed that threshold. I don't even manage to recall all the social bonds I have around these parts, so I don't plan on making it my business to do so for other pairs. Of course, that still leaves it as fair game for either member of a given pair, just not so much for us third parties.

[martinuzz]

My mom threw coffee over her 1 year old, still good laptop. Worse, she held it upside down, touched it with some paper tissues and was convinced it would be ok to immediatly turn it back on. It dead now.

People over age 65 should not be allowed to touch computers.