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[Descan]

Because gender is fairly integral to a lot of people? And it makes you less of a [redacted] if you type a couple more letters than go all fedora-banging neckbeard and go "NO! -I- don't think it's important THEREFORE it is not important and you're just whining!"

Edit: Sorry if this was inflammatory. It's that this topic comes up pretty consistently and each time, the responses from this forum make it just a little bit more uncomfortable to be here. I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of thing had at least some impact on Vector taking a break from the forum again.

[AlleeCat]

Because if you don't use the right pronouns, people will feel like you're invalidating their gender. I hate it when people use male pronouns to refer to me because I've spent over 3 years telling people I'm not male. It's demoralizing, and it's hurtful.

Seriously. Pronouns are actually really important. You may not think so, but that's because you've never had to struggle with them. Saying "Why do pronouns even matter to anyone?" is like saying, "Why don't starving people just go to the grocery store?"

[Orange Wizard]

Hang on, isn't it the whole social justice movement that wants us to move past gender/sex/whatever? It sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

[Tawa]

"Why do pronouns even matter to anyone?" is like saying, "Why don't starving people just go to the grocery store?"

Can you please explain this metaphor? I'm not sure I understand how not having money for food equates to people using the wrong pronouns.

[Cthulufaic]

I mean I just use 'they/their/them' because it's as close to a gender-neutral pronoun English has.  I mean I usually respect people I know and don't use 'him/her' if it bothers them, the only time I think that it goes a bit far is when they make up pronouns for themselves, a la tumblr.

[Bohandas]

Hang on, isn't it the whole social justice movement that wants us to move past gender/sex/whatever? It sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Agreed

[Descan]

At best, it's more about moving past imposing gender on others based on sexual characteristics, imposing social roles based on that imposed gender, and instead listening to them when they tell you otherwise.

At worst, you're conflating two different sub-groups within the larger idea and implying everyone who calls themself a part of the social justice sphere must subscribe to both ideas and since they're seemingly mutually exclusive, that person is being dishonest. :I

[AlleeCat]

Hang on, isn't it the whole social justice movement that wants us to move past gender/sex/whatever? It sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

1. When have I ever said that?
2. Just because someone wants to abolish a system doesn't mean they can't try to make compromises within said system to make life easier between now and the time said system is properly abolished.
3. Just because I'm a feminist does not mean I agree with every opinion another feminist or part of the social justice movement has. I would have wildly conflicting opinions if that were true.

"Why do pronouns even matter to anyone?" is like saying, "Why don't starving people just go to the grocery store?"

Can you please explain this metaphor? I'm not sure I understand how not having money for food equates to people using the wrong pronouns.

People who say "Why do pronouns even matter to anyone?" have obviously never struggled with pronouns, just like anyone saying "Why don't starving people just go to the grocery store?" has obviously never struggled with having money for food. They're both naive statements, assuming that because something doesn't matter to you, it doesn't matter to anyone else.

[Orange Wizard]

To be fair, there's a tiny bit of a difference between being called a she instead of a they and dying because you have no food.

[Frumple]

... considering the suicide (and homicide against) rates for those who actually struggle with that sort of thing, the difference probably isn't as much as one would hope.

[Bohandas]

... considering the suicide rates for those who actually struggle with that sort of thing, the difference probably isn't as much as one would hope.

That just provides even more proof that they've blown it out of proportion to an insane degree.

If you're considering suicide over grammar you're literally insane.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

So my EX's grandma had a heart attack today, she said she's not doing good and I'm afraid to ask her about it especialy since she basicaly only talks to me as little as she possibly can and has been ignoring me but I'm seriously worried about her grandma and her family and yes her too

[Rose]

The way I see it...

If somebody prefers to be referred to in a certain way, it's pretty much basic respect to at least try to oblige.

I mean, my gender isn't that important to me, but I'd still be at least mildly annoyed if people would keep calling me she.


That said, if somebody wants to use made up words for their pronouns, rather than he/she/they... yeah, no.

[Bohandas]

Even if people exclusively referred to you as "jackass" that still wouldn't be worth committing suicide over

[Orange Wizard]

Even if people exclusively referred to you as "jackass" that still wouldn't be worth committing suicide over

It'd drive you up the wall, though. Someone you've never met? "Hey, jackass. How's it going?"