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Author Topic: Things that made you sad today thread.  (Read 9757516 times)

Yoink

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91125 on: April 04, 2015, 08:31:44 pm »

But don't forget! There were some snide comments about their business not serving gay people on Yelp! And their webpage that they didn't even have got hacked! And..

Overblown bullshit by typical conservatives throwing themselves on a cross of martyrdom for fun and profit. Given that Indiana is passing these laws there was never any real danger to their business. The only real news is how many bigoted shitbags are willing to toss money at them for reinforcing a climate of dehumanization towards gender non-conforming people as well as the number of those who defend it while drawing more focus towards members of the targeted group who might be stepping out of line with angered behavior while ignoring the wider context (such as the very real legal implications of reinterpreting laws towards "Religious Liberty").

But hey, we should be thankful that Indiana doesn't execute gay people at least  ::)
I like how you can say this sort of thing and nobody bats an eyelid, yet if someone on the opposing side of the argument used such harsh words they would most likely be dogpiled on and/or banned. *sigh* Anyways, I suppose I shall move onto less volatile sads before such a thing should befall me.


I still have a cold and I still don't have a washing machine. :(
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91126 on: April 04, 2015, 09:21:26 pm »

Similarly, Christians should stop kicking up a stink about the secularization of Christmas with phrases like "Happy Holidays", because they should be thankful we don't throw them to the lions anymore.

Christian groups threatened lawsuits a few years back because people were calling Christmas trees "holiday trees". Clearly modern American Christians are the most persecuted group in history and need the special protections of new state laws, so I don't get the whole backlash against Indiana. Otherwise we'd have "holidays" gradually replacing the word "christmas". Then hell would literally gain dominion over the whole Earth.
America is the only place where this a problem, though. In New Zealand and (afaik) Europe, Christmas is wholly secularised and no-one gives a damn. It's still called Christmas by everyone, but the only mainstream relation it has to Christianity is the occasional advert where someone says "find out the real meaning of Christmas by visiting [a church]".
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Descan

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91127 on: April 04, 2015, 09:31:29 pm »

almost reasonable amounts of sleep (somewhere in between 5 and 8 hours per night, usually in the latter end of the scale).
... What do you consider reasonable? That's... a bit on the low-end, actually. I think 8 hours is the average for a healthy adult? Between 7 and 9 at least.

Sads: I want to learn Finnish. German. Icelandic. Gaelic. Russian. Arabic. Swahili. Navajo.

Basically, unless I become immortal, develop a way to literally shove in knowledge to my brain, or both, I'll never learn all the ones I want to. I'll be lucky if I can learn two. :/
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 09:33:08 pm by Descan »
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91128 on: April 04, 2015, 09:51:46 pm »

What is Navajo?
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Descan

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91129 on: April 04, 2015, 09:53:37 pm »

Native American language in America, speakers of which constitute the largest official tribe in the U.S. In the Arizona/Utah/New Mexico region, along with their own nation-within-a-nation in the same area.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91130 on: April 04, 2015, 10:08:25 pm »

Navajo (and other Athabaskan languages) are absurdly difficult for speakers of European languages to learn. I'd honestly recommend pretty much any other Native American language at all. It's that hard.
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Bohandas

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91131 on: April 04, 2015, 10:21:31 pm »

The allies used it as a code during WW2 because it was harder to decode than a cipher
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91132 on: April 04, 2015, 10:23:37 pm »

... sounds like fun.
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Descan

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91133 on: April 04, 2015, 10:32:02 pm »

Navajo (and other Athabaskan languages) are absurdly difficult for speakers of European languages to learn. I'd honestly recommend pretty much any other Native American language at all. It's that hard.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91134 on: April 04, 2015, 10:54:17 pm »

Lots of languages have really difficult idiosyncrasies. Take Cherokee, for example, a language that is 75% verb.
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Redzephyr01

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91135 on: April 04, 2015, 11:10:34 pm »

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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91136 on: April 04, 2015, 11:14:00 pm »

Lots of languages have really difficult idiosyncrasies. Take Cherokee, for example, a language that is 75% verb.

Well...kind of. It's actually a good deal more complicated than that, so I'm going to elaborate.

I don't know much about Cherokee, but I did write a paper on Choctaw syntax, and my professor, who has worked on both, says Cherokee works in more or less the same way. In European languages, you have nouns, and you have verbs. Verbs act as predicates, and nouns act as arguments, basically. And you can tell by looking at a word whether it's a noun or a verb. If it's a noun, it'll act like an argument. If it's a verb, it'll act like a predicate. Nouns have noun inflections. Verbs have verb inflection. To turn a noun into a verb or vice versa, you need to use derivational morphology, which creates an entirely new word.

So, if you have the Latin verb amō "I love", you can't just decide "oh, this is a third-declension o-stem noun like contiō" and put an accusative suffix on it to get *amōnem. That's just crazy. Nor can you take a noun and put a passive ending on it. In Latin trying to do that would be insane. You can make a noun out of a verb...but you need a derivational affix. E.g., you can put -or onto amō and get amor "love", and that's a noun- but not without turning the verb into an entirely new word. Even English has words like "love" that can act like a noun or a verb, but the inflectional morphology (or what's left of it) always distinguishes. "Loved" cannot be the past tense of the noun "love"- nouns by definition cannot have past tense.

This is so central to the way Indo-European languages work that it almost never occurs to anyone to question it. But Choctaw does something entirely different and really fucking cool. Allow me to explain.

You get a data set (this was how my paper worked, by the way) that contains the word basha, which is glossed "is cut". You also get a word bash-li "he cuts it".

OK, cool, you think, you put -li onto a verb and it becomes transitive. It's a transitive marker for verbs. We've got this.

We also have isht-bash-li, which is glossed "he cuts with (something)". The isht- here acts like what we call an applicative. Think about how a passive works:

a) The man killed the groundhog.

b) The groundhog was killed.

In a passive, you take a normally transitive verb and kick the subject out. Then you promote the object to subject position and make the verb passive. An applicative does something sort of similar- it takes an oblique argument, like an instrument, or a location, or an indirect object, or whatever- kicks out the old direct object and promotes that oblique argument to direct object role. So isht- promotes an instrument to object position- if you started with he cut the meat with a knife, you get rid of the meat and now get a transitive verb that is basically he with-cut the knife or, more naturally, he cut (something) with the knife.

We can wrap our heads around this. But wait, there's more. Because I didn't actually give you a definition when I wrote "he cuts it" for bash-li or "he cuts with it" when I wrote isht-bash-li, I gave you a gloss. You could just as easily gloss bash-li as "butcher". Or isht-bash-li as "knife", actually.

What's going on is that Choctaw's affixes, its prefixes and suffixes, are all about a semantic meaning, not so much grammatical function. There's no distinction between inflection and derivation, and there's no distinction between noun and verb affixes- an affix goes on whatever it wants. Instead, you have very strict syntax that tells you where the arguments are and where the predicate is. It's basically subject-object-(obliques)-verb order, and this is always followed- you can't just use a case system to scramble everything around.

In other words, if your word is in an argument place in the sentence, it acts like a "noun" and all its affixes are nouny. And if it's in a predicate place in the sentence, it acts like a "verb" and all its affixes are verbs. So there's a very clear distinction between arguments and predicates, between words doing noun things and words doing verb things, just as in European languages. But the inflectional morphology doesn't do that. The syntax does- you have lots of inflection, but very strict syntax!

This actually gets extended to just about every affix in the language. For example, Choctaw unsurprisingly has a suffix that on predicates means "past tense". But if you take the word for "wife", and put a past tense marker on her, she's now your ex-wife. Or you can take the subject agreement markers on predicates and also use them for possession. It's somewhat as if you could say "perr-amos" in Spanish and mean "our dog," or "espos-é" to mean "my ex-husband."

I hasten to add that this is nowhere near the weirdest thing you find in the languages of North America...

(OK, I lied- there are a few true nouns in Choctaw that can only take a few pieces of verby inflection, so there is a distinction of a sort. An example is waak, "cow". However, they're a small, closed class, and usually consist of really basic so-called "semantic primes", things like "tree" or "water" or "moon", or they're borrowed- waak is from Spanish vaca. Almost all nouns of any nuance, including people's names and new coinages, exist in the sort of noun-verb limbo I've outlined above.)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 11:28:04 pm by FearfulJesuit »
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

penguinofhonor

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91137 on: April 04, 2015, 11:28:03 pm »

.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 07:18:15 pm by penguinofhonor »
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91138 on: April 04, 2015, 11:33:23 pm »

What does it mean to use a person's name as a verb?

Well, you can use it as a predicate- Choctaw doesn't really have a word for "to be"- a sentence like "That's John" would be rendered as something like "That person Johns," "that over there is Johnning." And "adjectives" in Europe tend to be intransitive verbs in Choctaw- instead of "that tree is green" you basically say "that tree greens."

But the more important point is that the morphology you would use to make a person's name, or any other "noun", is verbal morphology. This is true across most of North America. There's no trouble naming someone something like "he will be a strong hunter" more like "he hunts strongly"- you see how easily Europe will trap you into thinking in nouns? or the like- if you made it stand alone and didn't know it was a name that's how you'd understand it, as a verb. But you can use it as a noun to refer to a specific person, to be the object or subject of the main verb of the sentence and do all those sorts of thing.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 11:37:20 pm by FearfulJesuit »
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

Vector

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #91139 on: April 05, 2015, 12:05:19 am »

-snip-
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 01:44:14 am by Vector »
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