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[timferius]

Ugh, Truean, that's pretty terrible. Classic movie moment of watching the young, promising disciple fall to evil. If you start mentoring someone else to take them down, just be careful. The death of the wise mentor to spur the apprentice to fight is not the course you want this to take. Your best bet is to take the fight to them in a climatic battle. That way you'll come out scared, but alive, victorious, and having learnt important life lessons.

I really need to stop trying to apply movie logic to life...

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Ugh, Truean, that's pretty terrible. Classic movie moment of watching the young, promising disciple fall to evil. If you start mentoring someone else to take them down, just be careful. The death of the wise mentor to spur the apprentice to fight is not the course you want this to take. Your best bet is to take the fight to them in a climatic battle. That way you'll come out scared, but alive, victorious, and having learnt important life lessons.

I really need to stop trying to apply movie logic to life...

Especially when It involves lawyering.

[smjjames]

Really wish people would stop calling Michael Brown a robber.

http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/08/ferguson-store-owner-says-he-doesnt-believe-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/#

That didn't stop the looters from destroying his store, though 

Yeah, it was incredibly ironic that his store got robbed again, when that is supposedly the incicent that started all this.

Making someone shuffle their commander into their library should be illegal :c

What are you talking about?

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Well here's what the live news last night said
(And they gave a run down of what has been happening by from shooting to verdict)

Cop is helping some people out after their kid stopped breathing or something
A police report comes in on a robbery
The other cops lead but this one stays to make sure the EMS gets there
He then leaves in the direction of the recent update on the robbery
There is a description of the robber given out (his clothes and what he stole and that there may be one other possibly male person with him)
The cop is driving along and sees someone that matches the description
The asks them to stop (he also noticed that the one match g the description was holding the possibly stolen items)
Words were exchanged
The robber (Michael brown) aprouched the police car
Exchange of words and possibly insults
Brown begins to reach into the car and a struggle begins (supported by physical evidence as well as testimony from eye witnesses, these eye witnesses do include African American people)
Other officer tried to defend himself
He could not reach his pepper spray or cane without putting himself in more danger
He draws his gun and warns brown say that he will shoot him if he does not get back
Brown attempts to get the gun
A shot goes off (possibly the one that hit his hand)
(A couple more shots may have also possible gone off during the struggle)
Brown runs
(This is where eye witness gets iffy but the physical evidence supports some of the eye witness stories so this is what I remember the news saying)
The officer chased after him
Brown turned around (and possibly charged back after the officer)
He did not put his hands up (some eye witness reports even say that he was charging towards the officer or had his hands raised up in fists)
The officer began firing
Brown ran towards him (IIRC)
The final shots were fired (one grazing the top of his head and the last hitting his head directly)
The officer is later examined and evidence of physical injury is found (ie. being punched in the face)

Later riots and unrest begin
This continues and then begins to calm down into peaceful protests for a while
About 2 months pass
Verdict day is announced
Crowds form
Verdict is given
Crowds begin peacefully protesting
Then they start insulting and throwing things at the cops
The cops begin firing SMOKE pellets into the crowd to disputes the crowd
Shots fired (don't know who fired them but I was watching this live)
People begin leaving and now the dedicated mob is left (around this time is when the mob attempted to destroy a police car)
Armored vehicles and riot police are out
One protestor blocks their path with several supporters off to the side and many more down the road
The mob begins burning trash cans, one bicycle art thing, and a cop car
Tear gas and smoke pellets are being used now
The mob is being pushed back and they begin burning and looting in other areas
Riots and control of the streets go on all night
There are still protesters today, now nation wide

Just clarifying the ferguson thing for people that didn't get the live news feed last night

wow you know so much, were you on the grand jury? Perhaps you were present for the whole thing?

It's not like cops aren't generally incredibly racist, or that this cop had a history of racism that might have affected his judgement, or that he didn't know about the robbery, or that killing unarmed black men is actually a rather common past time for cops.

Oh you seem so mad at me
For what reason?
This is what the news was broadcasting
I had nothing to do with this information besides hearing it
Non of it is my opinion
If you had noticed that I did say that
But ya know I don't care
I'm glad the cop got off free, what's so wrong about shooting someone for assaulting you?
Almost all of the eyewitness reports and physical evidence point to it being exactly that

[Reelya]

what's so wrong about shooting someone for assaulting you?

So you can kill anyone who gave you aggro even if they already backed off, you're saying?

if someone is assaulting you, that's one thing. Shooting someone in the back who is running away is considered murder, unless a cop does it. Self-defence is not valid if you already scared the person off, you don't get a "license to kill" because previously someone was being a dick but they backed off.

"what's so wrong about shooting someone for assaulting you?". It's not ok to kill people for what they previously did at all. That's called cold blooded revenge, i.e. deliberate murder. If someone punching you makes it ok to shoot them afterwards do you also think it's ok to shoot people for other grievances? You can only ethically shoot to defend yourself, not to "get your own back" or "because he assaulted me first".

"Ooh the person is running away now, great, I have a clear shot!" <= clear problem with scenario. It doesn't matter if that guy had punched you, or even punched a cop. Punching a cop isn't an automatic death penalty.

[Orange Wizard]

I very much doubt Cryxis is saying it's acceptable to shoot someone in retaliation or whatever. It's kind of a lose-lose scenario to begin with. But either way - shooting someone in defence, after warning them that you would do so, and they continued attacking... yeah, I don't see how you could blame the guy.
Now, if Brown was running away, we have a problem. Unfortunately, every (reputable) report I have seen to date says otherwise.

Police brutality is another and very real problem, yet I fail to see its relevance here.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

What I heard from the news and the state persecuted is that brown didn't back off
No he got away from the car then charged back
That cop was justified
Now if new evidence comes to light saying that brown tried to surrender then yes the cop is in the wrong but right now he was entirely justified

[Reelya]

Seriously I've been around long enough to know you never trust police's version of anything. I've seen this with my own eyes, in every town I have EVER lived in. I've witnessed what happened to people I knew, and how ficticious and fabricated the police "report" always was. Every time I've ever seen a police report it's been wildly at odds with what I saw and knew from everyone else to the point of being physically impossible, with for example, people I knew reportedly acting and talking in a way that they never would. e.g. they had a friend of mine apparently talking back to the cop using "jail lingo" which he wouldn't ever use / didn't even know. Me and that friend who supposedly said those things didn't even understand the slang used in the police report and had to ask someone else what they even meant.

The one police report I saw in detail was so disjointed and had so little to do with the events that took place (along with the detailed jailspeak conversations which supposedly took place), that I highly suspect it was cut/pasted from multiple older reports they'd written, and they just threw whatever "sounds good" in.

And the TV news always take the cops side even if that blatantly contradicts what's actually on camera. This is a worldwide "that's how shit happens" phenomena. "Well the TV news said so, so I believe it 100%" is about the weakest possible justification for some opinion. They have the least credibility on such issues. A cop could probably decapitate random babies right on camera and still not face any charges, that's how it works. And the news would solemnly tell you how they were terrorist babies, high on PCP, who went for the officer's weapon.

[Aseaheru]

Particularly Fox. Ro rather, "Stretch it as far as we can until someone yells, then go back as little as possible" "News".

Hell, The Onion is a better source of news than they are.

[Arcvasti]

As a pacifist, I'd say murder is NEVER justified, but the important part of the latest riots is not their cause. Even if the original case wasn't a case of pure police brutality or abuse of power, it still sparked a chain of events that will[Hopefully. Yeah, who am I kidding.] push the government into taking action. And I can name a thousand cases where the police were indisputably in the wrong, parallel to this one. I ran into a list in the other Bay12 thread about this. And read it all the way down. Over about an hour. There have been riots and protests about this kind of thing before for a reason. There was nothing special about this killing. It was one of many. The only reason it stands out is because it pushed people to action. The TV news people are biased. So are the cops. So are the protesters. The only way to know for sure is to see it with your own eyes.

[smjjames]

Seriously I've been around long enough to know you never trust police's version of anything. I've seen this with my own eyes even in "nice" areas. And the TV news always take the cops side even if that blatantly contradicts what's actually on camera. This is a worldwide "that's how shit happens" phenomena.

"Well the TV news said so, so I believe it 100%" is about the lamest possible justification for some opinion, ever created. They have the least credibility on such issues. A cop could probably decapitate random babies right on camera and still not face any charges, that's how it works. And the news would solemnly tell you how they were terrorist babies, high on PCP, who went for the officer's weapon.

That's a rather blatantly extreme example.

Particularly Fox. Ro rather, "Stretch it as far as we can until someone yells, then go back as little as possible" "News".

Hell, The Onion is a better source of news than they are.

Fox is well, Fox.....

[smjjames]

As a pacifist, I'd say murder is NEVER justified, but the important part of the latest riots is not their cause. Even if the original case wasn't a case of pure police brutality or abuse of power, it still sparked a chain of events that will[Hopefully. Yeah, who am I kidding.] push the government into taking action. And I can name a thousand cases where the police were indisputably in the wrong, parallel to this one. I ran into a list in the other Bay12 thread about this. And read it all the way down. Over about an hour. There have been riots and protests about this kind of thing before for a reason. There was nothing special about this killing. It was one of many. The only reason it stands out is because it pushed people to action. The TV news people are biased. So are the cops. So are the protesters. The only way to know for sure is to see it with your own eyes.

Even the witnesses can be biased.

[alway]

Seriously I've been around long enough to know you never trust police's version of anything. I've seen this with my own eyes even in "nice" areas. And the TV news always take the cops side even if that blatantly contradicts what's actually on camera. This is a worldwide "that's how shit happens" phenomena.

"Well the TV news said so, so I believe it 100%" is about the lamest possible justification for some opinion, ever created. They have the least credibility on such issues. A cop could probably decapitate random babies right on camera and still not face any charges, that's how it works. And the news would solemnly tell you how they were terrorist babies, high on PCP, who went for the officer's weapon.

That's a rather blatantly extreme example.

Is it?
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/a_swat_team_blew_a_hole_in_my_2_year_old_son/
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/us/georgia-toddler-stun-grenade-no-indictment/

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

It was a love feed from the prosecuted announcing the case
This wasn't what the news said
It's the love broadcast they sent out
If you don't trust the prosecuter well too bad cause just like about any other position it was popular vote that got him there
And the jury was picked before the case so they weren't set up

If new evidence comes to light then the cop should be in jail but currently all of the evidence points to it being Brown's fault

[smjjames]

Love feed? Lol, you need to do some spellchecking cryxis.