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[hops]

I think God is like the Matrix's Architect, trying to strike a balance between a boring utopia and a hell world.

[TD1]

Swinburne's "Toy World" eh?

I see no problem with not dying before I can experiencing the world.

Babies dead in the womb. They're not going to experience the "Hostile Environment" or care about the "Counterfactual Hypothesis"

[Tiruin]

Edit: Tir, most of our problems are natural, not man-made. Most deaths, for example, are from things like heart attack and cancers and disease, not war or murder or accidents. So yeah, not man-made, and very very difficult to cure by man. Loooots of unnecessary suffering, there~ And that doesn't include non-fatal suffering, either!

You've a point, but most of those examples are caused by man-made choices. Lifestyle choices. :v
Not convincing choices :\

[Parsely]

Wanna make a fgrp game, but worried about it getting no hype.

Blimey was I an annoying cunt sometimes.

Feel dat.

Well that's what I made this thread for.

Did....you just shamelessly advertise your thread here? Your thread on advertising?

Obviously I don't need to answer, but yes. :p

[Descan]

Edit: Tir, most of our problems are natural, not man-made. Most deaths, for example, are from things like heart attack and cancers and disease, not war or murder or accidents. So yeah, not man-made, and very very difficult to cure by man. Loooots of unnecessary suffering, there~ And that doesn't include non-fatal suffering, either!

You've a point, but most of those examples are caused by man-made choices. Lifestyle choices. :v
Not convincing choices :\

Heart attacks, maybe. MAYBE. I think most fatal heart-attacks are not caused by diet but just by chance. But that's just what I think.

But I doubt cancer or disease are lifestyle choices, even if your lifestyle can impact them I don't they're as clear-cut as, say, eating McDonalds 3 nights a week is on heart-attack risk or something of that nature. So many things cause cancer and disease that it'd be folly to think you could possibly mitigate all risk.

_{Plus, the mere existence of cancers, heart attacks, and (especially really disturbing/painful) diseases is a fair strike against the existence of a loving god.}

[TD1]

"God does not intervene if we can fix it."

Okay, assuming that's correct then he must intervene when we can't fix it. Give an example of when that has happened. I use again still-born babies. Not the mother's fault, nor the father's nor the child's.

[Yoink]

Edit: Tir, most of our problems are natural, not man-made. Most deaths, for example, are from things like heart attack and cancers and disease, not war or murder or accidents. So yeah, not man-made, and very very difficult to cure by man. Loooots of unnecessary suffering, there~ And that doesn't include non-fatal suffering, either!

You've a point, but most of those examples are caused by man-made choices. Lifestyle choices. :v
Not convincing choices :\

A lack of any deaths by natural causes would create far more problems than it would solve.

[TD1]

*Shrugs*

Not for an omnipotent God.

[Bauglir]

How omnipotent are we talking, here? Sufficiently-advanced-technology omnipotent, or casually-rewrite-the-laws-of-physics omnipotent?

[Tiruin]

B-but...we're unsure on some laws of physics ._.
^{I'm thinking more on why some laws have conundrums surrounding them rather than 'there are missing laws of physics which do not explain 'x' or 'y' occurrence.}

[Bauglir]

Oh, yeah, sure. But we're pretty sure they're things that really exist, right? I mean basically the distinction here is whether or not there are rules they have to play by. Omnipotence is a concept vague enough that it really needs clarification. Sufficiently-advanced God creates arbitrary fish by grabbing energy out of the Sun and transmuting it into the appropriate matter, or whatever. The other kind just goes, "FUCK YOU, HERE'S A FISH."

[TamerVirus]

Put the cat down.

I haven't ever seen my mom cry like that.

Except when the other cat dropped dead back in September

[The Scout]

I signed up to the forum June 12 2009. It's only been five years, yet I've withdrawn so much from this forum and in my personal life.

[Orange Wizard]

I hate the argument "people die/suffer/get cancer/whatever, so god doesn't love us" because it's missing the point.

I'm going to speak from a Biblical/Christian perspective, so this probably won't be the view point of everyone who believes in some kind of god. This also isn't in a great amount of depth - but I can discuss further if people wish.

First, God does not "love" everyone, per se. He only loves those whom He chose to save from hell.
Second, this is not "unfair" or "evil" because God made us, therefore we are His to so with as He will. If you make a clay pot, you can choose what to do with the pot. Break it, fill it with water, paint it green, and so on.

How omnipotent are we talking, here? Sufficiently-advanced-technology omnipotent, or casually-rewrite-the-laws-of-physics omnipotent?

Casually-create-an-entire-universe-because-I'm-bored omnipotent.

[Bauglir]

I'm too anxious that I'm being lazy to rest from the work that I'm too tired to make myself do. Fuckin' vicious cycles, man. I remember a time when I reveled in laziness!