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[Mictlantecuhtli]

Even still, this incident and Glowcat's links show that there is a problem with some men not being able to deal with rejection. It kills me that women are afraid to say no to a guy for fear of violence.

I don't think anyone's argued the opposite of this. The statement that feminism could've helped to prevent these incidents is what is being questioned -- along with the rejection of mental factors playing into certain irrational actors crimes. I believe megalomania and violent reasoning can lead someone with a inferiority complex pulling something like this, not caring who they end up killing once they do snap. I simply do not believe a shooter who kills themselves was in any way a truly malicious shooter -- mostly confused, angry and hurt. There has to be a reasoning behind it, and it's not a logical one. That's why the people like that need the mental help. This is as sympathetic to criminal behavior as you'll find me, I just can't find it in my heart to abandon people to their rage and self-victimization [especially when we have medication and methodology that helps these kinds of issues] and let that take whatever course it does..

In this case, it's mostly megalomania. Especially the way he blames other people for how women don't pay attention to him. I'd bet the main reason he didn't get much action is because of that leer he always had. But just because the kid's a douchebag doesn't mean he didn't have legitimate mental issues that needed to be addressed.

[Vector]

.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Shows his mental faculties weren't exactly in order, do you not agree?

[Glowcat]

I don't think anyone's argued the opposite of this. The statement that feminism could've helped to prevent these incidents is what is being questioned -- along with the rejection of mental factors playing into certain irrational actors crimes. ...

If women were treated as human beings instead of prizes then yeah, he wouldn't have had his angers stoked by a community that is all too eager to blame women for not giving them sexual pleasure. Mental illness or even aspergers might've exacerbated the frustrations but his anger towards the world is demonstrably filtered through a sense of entitlement, particularly over women. He felt like he was a noble nerdy dude who was unjustly denied his pussy and it irked him to no end when the wishes of his father's wife superseded his own. The people who even now feel his actions were justified and that women murdered deserved it aren't doing so because they all have some mental health issue, at least one that isn't directly caused by the ideology which Rodger shared. The one that made him feel the only way he could be worth something is if he lived up to the "Alpha Male" category and when that mythical position was denied to him his anger boiled over into violence against all he felt who were responsible for taking it away from him. His anger is very similar to that expressed by "crazy uncles" who watch too much Fox news and take up arms against whichever cause they have been agitated against. It is qualitatively similar to the impetus behind mob violence in which it is caused by raw emotional resentment towards a particular person or category that only builds up over time. If it wasn't then these politically motivated mass murders (or other violence) wouldn't have such a long build up before they happen.

Within Rodger's mindset his actions were perfectly rational. It's the conclusions which led to those actions that were irrational. He felt that a life without Alpha Male respect was worthless, and he wanted to make the people he saw as responsible for his pain hurt before he died.

But just because the kid's a douchebag doesn't mean he didn't have legitimate mental issues that needed to be addressed.

Whatever mental health issues he had, it does not explain why he chose the targets in the way he did. It does not explain why his hatred was concentrated primarily around women.

Violence is not caused primarily by mental health issues so stop pretending that every mass shooting can be solved by pointing to any vague signs of a "mental condition" instead of looking at the underlying causes which caused a person to engage in said violence.

[BFEL]

BFEL sleeps for entire day.
BFEL wakes up.
BFEL is exhausted again.

I hate my life.

[Yoink]

I feel ya.
I've found it helps to write down the time you want to spend sleeping, preferably around seven or eight hours, and then force yourself to go to bed and stay there for the duration each night. Of course, having the willpower to keep that up for long is the hard part.

Makes me feel a hell of a lot better when I do it, though. Also causes more vivid dreams and even nightmares due to the brain not being exhausted, but hey, that's just a bit of fun.

[Arx]

Glowcat, you have a lot of valid points. The trouble is, we can't fix society instantly. We can put unstable people into institutions. Not people with disabilities or OCD or autism or anything like that, before I get jumped on, but people with megalomania complexes who are planning to hurt people.

Violence is not caused primarily by mental health issues so stop pretending that every mass shooting can be solved by pointing to any vague signs of a "mental condition" instead of looking at the underlying causes which caused a person to engage in said violence.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that no it's not, you're right, but it's far easier to deal with the mental health issues immediately than the societal issues.

Bleh. I really shouldn't be in this discussion.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

If we were a truly egalitarian society, would this person not have committed this shooting? We don't know. Neither of us.

We do know there are many factors which play into explosive anger and victimization complexes and a willingness to dehumanize other's for personal pleasure. I consider these mental conditions. I didn't say aspergers caused him to snap. There can be mental conditions -- such as, mindsets that seem perfectly rational, yet are anything but -- that aren't outright syndromes like many we see. There needs to be more attention paid, bottom line, and maybe this discussion wouldn't be so nebulous and full of speculation.

Now, we could get into the gun topic, and how he shouldn't have been allowed to buy them with his history of assault and anger issues, but that's a different thing and seems to have been left on the wayside by my staunch liberal friends. Remember, I think people like this kid shouldn't be allowed near weapons. I think I've made myself pretty clear on that part of the gun violence.

I, for one, just want to tackle gun violence from every angle. Not my selected social justice angle.

[Jopax]

Sleeping too much can be just as bad as sleeping not enough. As Yoink said, best to have set amounts of sleep every day and try to stick to them.

And now for the sad, mixed with the rage.

This weekend I came home, I think it was not a good idea, at all.

So far, I've come to see my cousin, who I've not seen for some five months now. He only arrived last night and I'll be seeing him for a couple of hours today before I go back tommorrow morning, this sucks.

I've also come to get some gum problems sorted out they were bleeding around a tooth that was feeling iffy. The dentist didn't fix that, instead she fixed two teeth that were not bothering me at all (and charged quite a bit for it) and also fucked up another part of my gums which now has been hurting way way more than the initial problem and shows no signs of stopping.

And finally the rather sad sad part is that I've avoided seeing one of my best friends again, haven't seen her in a couple months now. I'm not even sure why I avoid her tbh, but as more time passes I find it harder and harder to gather the strength and see her, probably won't see her today either, and then I won't be here for another month and a half.


Yeah, so far, the only positive things about this weekend is me downloading some more shit to take up my free time and going to see the abandoned bunkers again, tho that will probably suck too since I don't have a proper flashlight nor can I find the camera.

[Arx]

I've also come to get some gum problems sorted out they were bleeding around a tooth that was feeling iffy. The dentist didn't fix that, instead she fixed two teeth that were not bothering me at all (and charged quite a bit for it) and also fucked up another part of my gums which now has been hurting way way more than the initial problem and shows no signs of stopping.

You have an incredibly dumb dentist. On the plus side, you may have had minor cavities in the teeth she fixed, so those hopefully won't bother you for ages.

[Graknorke]

I've also come to get some gum problems sorted out they were bleeding around a tooth that was feeling iffy. The dentist didn't fix that, instead she fixed two teeth that were not bothering me at all (and charged quite a bit for it) and also fucked up another part of my gums which now has been hurting way way more than the initial problem and shows no signs of stopping.

You have an incredibly dumb dentist. On the plus side, you may have had minor cavities in the teeth she fixed, so those hopefully won't bother you for ages.

You can't be a dentists while being dumb. I think it's more likely that it's that thing medical professionals do where they don't admit they don't know what's wrong, and instead just try something in the hope it helps.

[Arx]

If you tell your dentist something is wrong with one of your teeth, and they do something unrelated without telling you anything about the other tooth or referring you to someone more qualified, they're dumb. Pretending nothing is wrong with your patient is one of the worst things I can think of for a medical professional to do.

[TamerVirus]

Sheesh, can't people have some tact? Six people died and everyone and their mother is turning the incident into another soap box for whatever ideology du jour Let the families of the deceased grieve, and let the world remember. Politicize such an incident so quickly simply makes you out to look like some callous demagogue who only cares about the 'agenda' Give it some time, and show some respect

[scrdest]

Sheesh, can't people have some tact? Six people died and everyone and their mother is turning the incident into another soap box for whatever ideology du jour Let the families of the deceased grieve, and let the world remember. Politicize such an incident so quickly simply makes you out to look like some callous demagogue who only cares about the 'agenda' Give it some time, and show some respect

My thoughts exactly. With all the sympathy I had, I couldn't help but felt disgusted when I heard the parent of one of the victims turn the situation into a political pivot.


Also, this guy was a nut, but it was neither that it was because of Asperger's, nor was he a sociopath or a narcissist.

What he in fact was is a fairly classical Borderline Personality (Black and white thinking? (alternates between idolization and demonization)? Check. Unstable self-image? Check. Marked sensitivity to rejection? Check. Self-destructive behavior? Duuuuuh.), and honestly, similarly to what FBI said about Eric Harris, if the guy didn't snap now he would probably do much more damage later.

[Descan]

Eh... weren't most of the people on the "feminism coulda stopped this" side talking more about how if the police had taken threats against women more seriously, he would have been searched and found out before he acted?

I remember Vector saying something like that, at least.

And I mean, come on. The police almost never act re: threats against women, it's only ever after-the-fact that they do anything, and even then they sometimes cover it up.