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Author Topic: Things that made you sad today thread.  (Read 9698937 times)

Bauglir

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73170 on: April 16, 2014, 07:11:44 pm »

I don't think I understand your point? If it's that you think I'm saying English is the be all and end all, I'm not. I'm saying that it's a better medium for emotion than maths.

I suppose a sunset could be classified as art. That's separated from both English and Maths, unless you see an equation as art, or a poem as art.
I might be able to accept that it's a better medium for communicating emotion, but I'm not sure. Certain kinds of emotion, perhaps. I think you're wrong about it being cold, brute, and simple. I know you're wrong about it being purely a description of reality. Certainly, however, it is no less beautiful, inspirational, or imaginative than English. It is no less art than other languages, but I can buy that it may be a different genre.

If you think that all math is about getting an answer, you're missing out. There's a lot of value in how you get there. I doubt I'm entirely wrong in saying that the shock of seeing a beautifully elegant proof is an echo of what the author felt when they realized it themselves, for instance.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Knit tie

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73171 on: April 16, 2014, 07:22:31 pm »

eiπ + 1 = 0
holy shit what the hell my brain burns
Had you never seen it before? I'm not that into Maths, but I'd still seen it.
That's Euler's identity for you.

Even better, did you know ii is real?
Considering that i2=-1, ii being real actually makes sense, yes.
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Parsely

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73172 on: April 16, 2014, 07:27:58 pm »

Dude. Clearly you have not heard of Mr. T. He was joking when he said "I pity the fool." :p
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Darvi

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73173 on: April 16, 2014, 07:28:14 pm »

I'd like to see how you made that jump from i to the power of 2 being real to i to the power of itself being real.
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Knit tie

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73174 on: April 16, 2014, 07:29:43 pm »

I'm not entirely sure myself, it just felt intuitively obvious, but let me break out my pen and paper and I'll try to find the logic.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73175 on: April 16, 2014, 07:30:10 pm »

Of course mathematics isn't a vessel for emotions, it's not a method of communication
Strictly speaking, that isn't true.
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RedKing

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73176 on: April 16, 2014, 07:39:33 pm »

Of course mathematics isn't a vessel for emotions, it's not a method of communication
Strictly speaking, that isn't true.

Indeed. The Voyager Plaque is based entirely around the premise that math may be the *only* method of communication we'll initially have with ETs.
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TD1

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73177 on: April 16, 2014, 07:40:44 pm »

Forgiven.

Maths is a form of communication. e=mc squared communicates that energy is equal to mass times the speed of light squared.
And yes, people can be unmoved by poems. But they still understand, if not feel, the emotion embedded in it. A poem about trench warfare is going to display grief, sadness, resentment or anger.
As for the "pity" bit, need I direct you back to Nietzsche?

I don't think I understand your point? If it's that you think I'm saying English is the be all and end all, I'm not. I'm saying that it's a better medium for emotion than maths.

I suppose a sunset could be classified as art. That's separated from both English and Maths, unless you see an equation as art, or a poem as art.
I might be able to accept that it's a better medium for communicating emotion, but I'm not sure. Certain kinds of emotion, perhaps. I think you're wrong about it being cold, brute, and simple. I know you're wrong about it being purely a description of reality. Certainly, however, it is no less beautiful, inspirational, or imaginative than English. It is no less art than other languages, but I can buy that it may be a different genre.

If you think that all math is about getting an answer, you're missing out. There's a lot of value in how you get there. I doubt I'm entirely wrong in saying that the shock of seeing a beautifully elegant proof is an echo of what the author felt when they realized it themselves, for instance.
I suppose you mean as in an artist feels pride in the drawing they laboured to create, and the different artistic techniques utilised to get there. I agree with this. There is more about the journey than the destination. Again, I understand that.
But my whole point isn't that maths is inferior. It's that it has different areas than English. One does not write a love letter in equations. I do not know where I said that maths was brutal (I said it shows brute fact, not emotion. Not that the process itself was brutal.) or cold (My very first comment on this matter wasn't meant seriously.) and I know I've said the opposite of simple on a number of occasions.

Why must everything be reduced to harsh, cold maths?

The human condition is quite incalculable.

It's hardly harsh, cold math. Math isn't cold and harsh, for one. It's really quite accessible, friendly and useful for a great many things. And it's just as good of a language as any to express the facts of life and relationships. Certainly as good as English at the very least.
I wasn't being serious, but I am being serious in that it's not as good at explaining relationships. It's good at predicting outcomes. It's good at giving facts. But the written word will always surpass it in that it can connect emotionally with the reader. After all, that's what relationships are about; emotion. Maths can no more give a stirring, good expression of a relationship than pigs can fly.
My entire point is that Language is better at maths in conveying emotions, especially those pertaining to relationships. Not that one is superior over all, or inferior. I think my initial joke made it seem like I was coming in believing English is better; I don't.

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Dude. Clearly you have not heard of Mr. T. He was joking when he said "I pity the fool." :p

Clearly. Except...
The 'pity' bit was sincere, by the way - there's such a wealth of pure beauty out there that most people will never know... And the Yo Momma bit was just an immature joke. I'm drunk right now, please forgive me~
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Darvi

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73178 on: April 16, 2014, 07:44:25 pm »

But they still understand, if not feel, the emotion embedded in it.
Hi, I'm the obligatory counter-example. How may I ruin your day today?
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TD1

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73179 on: April 16, 2014, 07:47:28 pm »

On the contrary, someone being who they are doesn't ruin my day at all.

Flander's Field. I take it you understand the sentiment and feeling behind it?
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BlackFlyme

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73180 on: April 16, 2014, 07:48:57 pm »

I've had to have more than a few poems and such explained to me.

But then, I still have a very hard time understanding emotions.
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Darvi

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73181 on: April 16, 2014, 07:49:26 pm »

On the contrary, someone being who they are doesn't ruin my day at all.

Flander's Field. I take it you understand the sentiment and feeling behind it?
The what now?
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TD1

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73182 on: April 16, 2014, 07:55:10 pm »

On the contrary, someone being who they are doesn't ruin my day at all.

Flander's Field. I take it you understand the sentiment and feeling behind it?
The what now?

The...ya know....well it's...
listen, I'm fairly certain it involves boiling 'em, mashing 'em and puttin' 'em in a stew.
.....Or maybe we've got different dictionaries  :P
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Darvi

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73183 on: April 16, 2014, 07:58:20 pm »

This is another one of these moments where I have no fucking clue what the hell is going on.
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TD1

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #73184 on: April 16, 2014, 07:59:19 pm »

I made a stab at humour. I do that from time to time. It's one of my many faults.

In fact, one such joke sparked that entire Maths/English thing.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 08:00:54 pm by Th4DwArfY1 »
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