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[Bauglir]

There's also a very booze-based culture in Britain. Most culture for teenagers and young adults is 'get very drunk, have drunken sex, repeat ad infinitum'.

I can confirm that this is also the case in America. Or at least in university towns, which are admittedly the only ones I've ever lived in.

[kaijyuu]

I would very much hesitate to say "most" teenage culture is that. Maybe that happens to be the loudest.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

OK. I was going off an impression based on American movies being so violent but you rarely see a female nipple, whereas in British supermarket tabloids and comedy stuff you get nudity but there are all these calls to restrict violence in media ... as you can tell this isn't something I've really researched, so I'm pretty uninformed on the cultural differences.

[Sirus]

OK. I was going off an impression based on American movies being so violent but you rarely see a female nipple, whereas in British supermarket tabloids and comedy stuff you get nudity but there are all these calls to restrict violence in media ... as you can tell this isn't something I've really researched, so I'm pretty uninformed on the cultural differences.

Haven't had much exposure to British media, but this seems fairly accurate to me. Plenty of violence (though actual blood and gore tend to be restricted to older audiences...usually) but nudity is somewhat rarer. See that Super Bowl halftime show about 8 years back.

[SalmonGod]

Taboo plays a very, very large role in American culture.  We value them so that we can be obsessed with breaking them.

[Sirus]

And then the Parental Guardians can feel good shrieking about the breaking for a few weeks before everyone settles down again. A glorious cycle, eh?

[XXSockXX]

That's the standard rule for movies. American version cuts the nudity, European version cuts the violence, Japanese version has everything plus 20min of extra tentacle gore.

[SalmonGod]

And then the Parental Guardians can feel good shrieking about the breaking for a few weeks before everyone settles down again. A glorious cycle, eh?

Yeah, they get double the benefit.  They get to feel good about themselves for standing up for family values, and then the thrill of hiding their own taboo breaking from the children.  The same thrill that kids get from hiding their taboo breaking from their parents.

[Frumple]

Yeaaahh... while explicit nudity is fairly rare in (non-pornographic, anyway -- remember the multi-billion dollar porn market in the states is pretty bloody huge) American media, it's still definitely sex obsessed. Just in a victorian ankles-everywhere sort of sense.

And that's just the TV/movie stuff. Something like half the grocery-store magazines has sex or sex appeal tips of some sort or another plastered across their cover (and this isn't particularly gender biased). Whoever's on the other half is probably showing more skin than cloth. You won't see unclothed female nipples or genitalia of either gender, no, but basically everything else is both fair game and likely to be on display.

Just... yeah. States are definitely at least as focused on sex as it is on violence. Just somewhat less blatantly, I suppose.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

Taboo plays a very, very large role in American culture.  We value them so that we can be obsessed with breaking them.

That's wonderful!

[Lagslayer]

no amount of conditioning is going to change the fact humans are violent, so we might as well drop the conditioning altogether and go back to good ol' strength = power equation which gave us such marvelous inventions such as wholesale murder, the entire concept of a patriarchy, rape being a "privilege" of the person in power, the list goes on

right?

A couple pages late, but this thread moved fast since last night.

All humans are logical, even the illogical ones. Even the worst serial killers can be stopped if everyone gives them puppy dog eyes. It's never ok to shoot someone, even if they have their finger on a button to blow up the city, killing millions. These bad men just need a time out and a stern talking to. Anyone who fights back should be imprisoned for life! The killer should be put up in a mansion and showered with kittens and hugs until they don't want to kill anymore. Instinct is a lie! YOU VIOLENT FUCKING PIG!

I would appreciate it if you didn't present such an atrocious strawman.

I'm saying that expecting people to shun all violence and violent urges is a pipe dream. I'm against the assumption that it will all just 100% magically disappear over night if we just do some drugs and form a drum circle. Our instincts are still a factor. All of our knowledge grew out of these instincts. And some people simply won't conform to the "proper" diplomatic solution. Diplomacy only works if all parties involved submit to it.

[LordSlowpoke]

I would appreciate it if you didn't present such an atrocious strawman.

it was a beautiful, large strawman and i would request that you do not insult my skill in building ridiculously large strawmen

at least present some constructive criticism in why my strawman would be atrocious saying it sucks won't help me build larger and more splendorous strawmen in the future you are aware of that right

my personal view is that the bunch of masks we put on top of human nature are worth jack shit when things come to an end, but we might as well try and make such coming to an end unthinkable (people stopping being shitlords is a pipe dream too, but hey)

[Lagslayer]

it was a beautiful, large strawman and i would request that you do not insult my skill in building ridiculously large strawmen

I never meant to imply that it wasn't a well-built strawman, just that the aesthetics of said strawman were displeasing. Like if Michelangelo painted the nether regions of an old god on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

at least present some constructive criticism in why my strawman would be atrocious saying it sucks won't help me build larger and more splendorous strawmen in the future you are aware of that right

my personal view is that the bunch of masks we put on top of human nature are worth jack shit when things come to an end, but we might as well try and make such coming to an end unthinkable (people stopping being shitlords is a pipe dream too, but hey)

I'm not saying that pursuing such an end isn't a noble cause, either. However, I submit to the theory that if people assume nothing can go wrong, then when things do ultimately go wrong, it will be much more damaging because nobody bothered to prepare for it. Heedless optimism is incredibly dangerous.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

Even the worst serial killers can be stopped if everyone gives them puppy dog eyes.

Meet sociopaths.

He was being sarcastic.

EDIT: Violence is the part of conflict that happens when diplomacy fails. If everyone agreed to use diplomacy and not violence, and even when they weren't getting what they want to refuse to turn to violence, that would stop warfare. But there's bound to be people who are diplomatically powerless, economically powerless, etc. and for whom the choice is not "a good life if I win, or a shitty life if I lose" but survival vs. death. It makes sense for those people to fight. The people who would say they should just lay down and die rather than turn to violence are probably coming at it from a diplomatically- or economically-powerful position. Of course the ruling class would want the underclass to die rather than fight.

There are also going to be situations where the status quo is unacceptable to one side or the other. Which is to say, if diplomacy fails and no change can be agreed upon, one side is able to accept the status quo but the other considers that vile and impossible. A has no compelling interest to give anything up to B, because A is fine with no agreement. B can't afford to lose, and can't afford to have no agreement. Which means B must give and give until they butter A up enough to form an agreement. The minimal terms for A to say yes will probably be so unappealing to B that they would consider it tantamount to no agreement - or even worse, an agreed loss from the status quo. B is diplomatically powerless. Why should B even consider diplomacy worthwhile if it's impossible for B to operate in that arena? If you have no money but lots of goats, you will engage in a trade economy and not even consider a money transaction as an option.

[Xantalos]

Even the worst serial killers can be stopped if everyone gives them puppy dog eyes.

Meet sociopaths.

No, he meant literal puppy dog eyes.