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[Pnx]

I get kind of tired of the arguments personally, we basically have the same three arguments over and over, food, guns, and feminism. Almost everything else is just not contentious enough amongst the forum goers, so it sees a briefly lived debate at best.

I wouldn't mind it so much if it wasn't people literally rehashing the exact same arguments over and over, sometimes it's also the exact same people doing it...

[SalmonGod]

I don't know, I don't even feel like it's just this board.  I feel like external society is changing pretty quickly, too.  Things are getting much harder than they were.

I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but I feel like tensions are just rising in general.  I've been feeling that for a very long time, but I think it's starting to get really tangible.  People are drawing stricter lines between each other and getting more derisive about those who don't fall on their own side.  There's a plethora of issues I could have brought up 5 years ago and almost anyone would shrug at them, but now almost anyone has very strong opinions on.

[misko27]

No, I don't long for the days of old when civil rights weren't happening as much as they are now >_>

But yeah, I mean that society is changing.  That is why the post says society~

Yes, but the people who are annoying you are the same as they always were. People rehashed the same bullshit five years ago they do now. Or perhaps some altered version. You just weren't in a position to realize it. And now you are! Congratulations. Welcome to life, it's short, but it's the longest thing you'll ever do.

Totally not found on a Desk at my school. Nope, I'm just that profound.

There's always the option of taking a break from bay12. See other Forums.

I get kind of tired of the arguments personally, we basically have the same three arguments over and over, food, guns, and feminism. Almost everything else is just not contentious enough amongst the forum goers, so it sees a briefly lived debate at best.

I wouldn't mind it so much if it wasn't people literally rehashing the exact same arguments over and over, sometimes it's also the exact same people doing it...

How about a new one? Perhaps over the superior font? *cough*

I don't know, I don't even feel like it's just this board.  I feel like external society is changing pretty quickly, too.  Things are getting much harder than they were.

I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but I feel like tensions are just rising in general.  I've been feeling that for a very long time, but I think it's starting to get really tangible.  People are drawing stricter lines between each other and getting more derisive about those who don't fall on their own side.  There's a plethora of issues I could have brought up 5 years ago and almost anyone would shrug at them, but now almost anyone has very strong opinions on.

Maybe, the Common Denominator, is you? I don't know, no one ever thinks it's they who've changed, no,It's the whole freaking world! Humans can't see things long-term. They don't know if they are actually moving back to the historical average for hate or whatever, or moving over. There was a time when everyone had even more of a opinion then now, then they receded into not giving a crap. Now they're back. But not for long.

[Vector]

I don't know, I don't even feel like it's just this board.  I feel like external society is changing pretty quickly, too.  Things are getting much harder than they were.

I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but I feel like tensions are just rising in general.  I've been feeling that for a very long time, but I think it's starting to get really tangible.  People are drawing stricter lines between each other and getting more derisive about those who don't fall on their own side.  There's a plethora of issues I could have brought up 5 years ago and almost anyone would shrug at them, but now almost anyone has very strong opinions on.

Yeah.  This.

I didn't notice it so much when I was a child, but when I got to college and started to have any idea whatsoever about what was really going on... phew.  Things have really changed fast over the past five years.  Everyone's got an opinion and it feels like people are feeling much more justified in everyday meanness.

There's always the option of taking a break from bay12. See other Forums.

Thought about it, but the problem is that feminist spaces and my other interests usually don't overlap in the community sort of way.  I think I'd rather try to make more friends out in meatspace.

[SalmonGod]

Maybe, the Common Denominator, is you? I don't know, no one ever thinks it's they who've changed, no,It's the whole freaking world!

I've actually grown much more moderate.  Hanging out here has had a lot to do with that.  There's plenty of proof in my earliest posts.

[Willfor]

Yeah, I've definitely noticed a difference in the way you present yourself, SalmonGod. I've seen the difference in a few different posters, actually.

--

I'm sort of new to feminism. I had a different opinion of it when I started actually talking on the lower boards, and Vector might be able to remember the various scraps we had. Vector was part of what changed my mind on the issue as a whole, but my full transformation sort of happened outside of Bay12, and inside my circle of friends. All my friends became feminists and progressive social justice warriors. I sharply followed suit, and truly educated myself on the issues.

All this is to say that, I have been outside this issue for longer than I've been inside of it, even on these boards. There used to be a lot more people advocating for the things I advocate for now here. I can definitely see that. There has been a change.

On the plus side, I'm somewhat better at checking myself before I enter a religious discussion. That's something...

[XXSockXX]

On the plus side, I'm somewhat better at checking myself before I enter a religious discussion. That's something...

I think the atheism thread was where I first posted in the lower boards. Other than that this is maybe the most peaceful (active) forum on the internet I know about. (Being relatively new here and not having participated in a feminism discussion).

[SalmonGod]

My attitudes regarding most feminist arguments have definitely changed, mostly thanks to Vector.  I was always sympathetic, but personal experiences prevented me from truly appreciating the issues or deconstructing some of the ignorant stock responses.

this is maybe the most peaceful (active) forum on the internet I know about.

I don't see this ceasing to be my main hangout anytime in the foreseeable future just because of this.  Stepping outside is exhausting.  Too many people who don't know how to approach disagreement maturely or honestly, or have extreme convictions without being the slightest bit informed.  I also learn more here than I ever have anywhere else.  Whenever there's a major event, this is where I get the best updates combined with well-expressed and reasoned perspectives.

[Solifuge]

I don't know, I don't even feel like it's just this board.  I feel like external society is changing pretty quickly, too.  Things are getting much harder than they were.

I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but I feel like tensions are just rising in general.  I've been feeling that for a very long time, but I think it's starting to get really tangible.  People are drawing stricter lines between each other and getting more derisive about those who don't fall on their own side.  There's a plethora of issues I could have brought up 5 years ago and almost anyone would shrug at them, but now almost anyone has very strong opinions on.

I've gotten a similar sense, and it's not something limited to this board. I think economic stress, a culture of cynicism, a growing air of disillusionment with the system, and no clearly-visible way forward, have been driving people toward tension and unrest. These factors might not affect everyone, but they bleed across from the people we meet and interact with who are dealing with these things, until that air becomes pervasive, and people get more stressed and snippy with one another.

It's interesting to me, to look at common themes in modern media as a way to suss out what's on people's minds, and what fantasies are appealing to them right now... sort of a window into the Zeitgeist. These days, most new shows and films seem to be about individuals rebelling against a corrupt society or dystopian government, or about bands of oppressed and isolated individuals uniting in rebellion against zombies, alien invaders, or other stand-ins for a world turned against them. I don't watch much television, but what I know of The Walking Dead, The Hunger Games, Falling Skies, Game of Thrones, Revolution, even Breaking Bad and Dexter, indicates that they share in these themes.

A lot of people are working harder, earning less, and are generally less happy about the system/world they inhabit than they were a few decades ago. I suspect that's why a lot of people are fantasizing about rebelling against it, or tearing it all down to rebuild it anew. As technology opens the world up, a lot of people are getting more and more insular, and gravitating into specialized communities like this one, where they seek out people with similar ideologies... perhaps to reassure them in their normalcy. And as we divide ourselves into more and more specialized groups, that divisiveness could very well be driving us further apart.


PPE: I don't know how accurate this all is, as I'm mostly just stream-of-consciousness rambling at this point.

Angst! Ennui! Bleh! etc.

[Nadaka]

Yeah, but I'm not talking about that.  A lot of these issues don't stay in one thread.  That's why we discuss them--because they're fairly universal issues.  So they pop up everywhere, and we end up having microfights in the emotion threads.

As for my interests, I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe I'd do better just sticking to the book, movie, and game threads.  That's not really what I come here for (not really even my main interests), but the community in those zones seems to remain intact.

EDIT: I miss folks like Aqizzar, and Tack, and WorkerDrone, and Janet, and Jackrabbit, and all that wonderful crowd of personable folk who has left--and I guess maybe what I'm saying is that I haven't been able to reattach to the people who remain.

I know the feel, the terrible thing is this is the only place I have left in the whole internet. I feel like there is no where I can fit in except this here motley crew of misfits, a cast that is growing increasingly bare. The only other place I frequent is slashdot, and its a random conglomeration of nameless faceless techies. No one there to identify with like there is here.

Something else you and wilfor mentioned? Less people putting up a good fight against things that offend you? I know that I for one am more passive recently, partly from being incredibly overwhelmed with the shit going on in my life and my lack of support at home, partly because its stale old arguments, and partly because the world really has gone to hell and there are limits to how often I can respond to outrage and injustice in a day.

I think the community has changed. Its changed as people leave and join. Its changed as people grow older and wise. Its changed as people descend into depression and apathy...

This. This thing I wrote here, so poorly. Is en-saddening me.

[Devling]

In Farenheit 451, one of the reasons cited for people forswearing books is growing population caused more and more minorities, which leads to the media being more censored because it wants to have a broader appeal, and doesn't want to offend anyone.

[XXSockXX]

I don't see this ceasing to be my main hangout anytime in the foreseeable future just because of this.  Stepping outside is exhausting.  Too many people who don't know how to approach disagreement maturely or honestly, or have extreme convictions without being the slightest bit informed.  I also learn more here than I ever have anywhere else.  Whenever there's a major event, this is where I get the best updates combined with well-expressed and reasoned perspectives.

Exactly. I came for DF, but I stayed to hear people from other countries weigh in on current events and general issues, in a reasonable manner. I find that quite fascinating, this is something you barely get anwhere else without filtering through lots of noise.

I stayed away from the feminism discussions because they were either too stock responses or too specific from the bits I've read. The stuff I find interesting there is too country/culture-specific to discuss without context. I'm also poorly qualified (being male and such).

I think economic stress, a culture of cynicism, a growing air of disillusionment with the system, and no clearly-visible way forward, have been driving people toward tension and unrest.

This is so true. The economic downturn since the beginning of the century and related issues have changed people a lot. I may have a completely different background (our issue with politics is more over too much consensus instead of too much polarization), but I see that too. Maybe it is getting older, but I find it weird seeing people half my age already worrying about their future and being competetive like hell, when I was just a naive kid at that age.

[Pnx]

Something else you and wilfor mentioned? Less people putting up a good fight against things that offend you? I know that I for one am more passive recently, partly from being incredibly overwhelmed with the shit going on in my life and my lack of support at home, partly because its stale old arguments, and partly because the world really has gone to hell and there are limits to how often I can respond to outrage and injustice in a day.

I feel like this a lot. There's a lot wrong with the world, I lack the ability to do much about it, and I have a lot of my own issues to deal with, especially just recently, a heck of a lot has happened to me in a pretty short space of time.

[SalmonGod]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've gotten a similar sense, and it's not something limited to this board. I think economic stress, a culture of cynicism, a growing air of disillusionment with the system, and no clearly-visible way forward, have been driving people toward tension and unrest. These factors might not affect everyone, but they bleed across from the people we meet and interact with who are dealing with these things, until that air becomes pervasive, and people get more stressed and snippy with one another.

It's interesting to me, to look at common themes in modern media as a way to suss out what's on people's minds, and what fantasies are appealing to them right now... sort of a window into the Zeitgeist. These days, most new shows and films seem to be about individuals rebelling against a corrupt society or dystopian government, or about bands of oppressed and isolated individuals uniting in rebellion against zombies, alien invaders, or other stand-ins for a world turned against them. I don't watch much television, but what I know of The Walking Dead, The Hunger Games, Falling Skies, Game of Thrones, Revolution, even Breaking Bad and Dexter, indicates that they share in these themes.

A lot of people are working harder, earning less, and are generally less happy about the system/world they inhabit than they were a few decades ago. I suspect that's why a lot of people are fantasizing about rebelling against it, or tearing it all down to rebuild it anew. As technology opens the world up, a lot of people are getting more and more insular, and gravitating into specialized communities like this one, where they seek out people with similar ideologies... perhaps to reassure them in their normalcy. And as we divide ourselves into more and more specialized groups, that divisiveness could very well be driving us further apart.


PPE: I don't know how accurate this all is, as I'm mostly just stream-of-consciousness rambling at this point.

Angst! Ennui! Bleh! etc.

I've been fascinated with the cultural symbolism of zombie apocalypse stories for a long time.  I think they're deeply representative of our times.  They're this perfect embodiment of so many collective fears:  the social stress of overpopulation and collapse of order most obvious among them.  We're so constantly surrounded by people that we don't even bother to connect with the majority of people we cross paths with anymore.  They're just hordes of faceless zombies we see shambling about their lives, incomprehensible to us. 

I think the most interesting part about them is how their injection into our culture coincided with the rise of mass consumerism and the height of the cold war.  Dawn of the Dead was truly amazing about driving these points, and it's impressive how that symbolism has managed to carry forward, even as those specific issues became old news. 

On consumerism, it's pretty obvious how they represent the way consumption has been programmed into our culture, driving us to consume as our only motivation, yet without purpose.  The "survivors" see themselves surrounded by these dead, soulless beings milling about aimlessly, looking to consume something they don't even need to sustain themselves.  Yet they're holed up in a mall all the while, pointlessly consuming everything contained within because they have nothing better to do.

Then there's the parallels to Cold War paranoia that I think have only since expanded in relevance.  There was this intense ideological conviction in the Cold War that could be summed up by the infamous line "Better dead than red".  To learn about the other side and gain sympathy for them was to be infected, and people feared that infection.  They especially feared their loved ones becoming infected, and watching them drift into a state of mind that they were taught to fear and forbidden from trying to understand.  We still live in an age of intense ideological conviction, but the spectrum of ideologies has become more expanded and complex, further shrinking the number of people we tend to genuinely identify with/our band of survivors.

And now we also have a somewhat newer collective fear to associate with zombies; becoming bored with life.  Stagnating.  More and more people are finding themselves spending 2/3 or more of their waking life in drudgery, unfulfilling work.  Lacking sleep.  Motivation the only challenge we face.  Going through the motions day after day in a state of existential coma for the sake of nothing but stable subsistence, while mentally, physically, and spiritually we slowly waste away, becoming zombies.

[Devling]

It was Yahtzee the first pointed out to me the silly hypocrisy of the zombie craze.
"Oh look at these things parodying mindless consumerism with zombies, I'm going to buy everything with zombies in it blindly!"