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[Korbac]

Aswering a question with a question is still a dick move, though.

If you ask God why he's a dick, he'll respond with the same question.

I hope I could hold God to higher moral standards than myself, to be honest.

[Lord Shonus]

I wish I had one to tear damn circumcision.

Jewish parents or just one of the cultural/'hygiene' (basically disproven) sort of thingies?

You are aware that many studies suggest that circumcision reduces FtM (potentially also MtM, depends on who's sticking what where) transmission of stds from 28-60%, aren't you? 

http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/7974070/reload=0;jsessionid=sH8sfA0fnZ14bjDVAvtE.10
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29882368/ns/health-sexual_health/t/male-circumcision-may-reduce-some-std-risks/#.UMkDmIN9K2A

It's still a tenative link, but there is data to suggest it. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the in-depth studies to analyze them further.

[kaijyuu]

@greatorder
23/male/Utah

I'm not stupid enough to give a specific physical address

I wish I had one to tear damn circumcision.

Jewish parents or just one of the cultural/'hygiene' (basically disproven) sort of thingies?

You are aware that many studies suggest that circumcision reduces FtM (potentially also MtM, depends on who's sticking what where) transmission of stds from 28-60%, aren't you? 

http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/7974070/reload=0;jsessionid=sH8sfA0fnZ14bjDVAvtE.10
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29882368/ns/health-sexual_health/t/male-circumcision-may-reduce-some-std-risks/#.UMkDmIN9K2A

It's still a tenative link, but there is data to suggest it. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the in-depth studies to analyze them further.

Which could be done much better by simply using a condom.

The risks/loss of sensation from circumcision is NOT worth the benefits, except perhaps in 3rd world countries where condoms are hard to come by.

[Scelly9]

Female to Male/Male to Male

[kaijyuu]

The reduction to STD risk is actually legitimate, since the glans is a mucus membrane. Put a callous over it (as is what happens when the foreskin is removed), and you have much reduced area that transmission can occur.

As for what it does, well, might be getting into NSFW territory to fully describe this stuff, but yeah Protects that mucus membrane from damage, so it performs its function. Also there are a lot of nerves in that band of skin, which are obviously nice to have.

[Lord Shonus]

The studies in question were conducted in places where free condoms are handed out. Doctors disagree over whether or not reduced sensation is even possible (assuming the operation is not botched), and, though condoms are excellent at preventing transmission, they are not perfect, and do fail. I'd take a circumsision for even a tenth of a percent reduced chance of receiving a uniformly fatal disease.

@greatorder Those were only two of dozens of studies on the matter. I simply don't subscribe to any journals, and thus only have access to the abstracts.
And Evolution Does Not Work That Way. Body hair hasn't provided any benefit (and was detrimental for centuries due to increased housing of parasites) since before recorded history.

[The Darkling Wolf]

Right: first link never provided the number of individuals in the investigation.

Second link: 3,393 people. From a country with god-knows how many people.

Also: 114 circumcised men compared with 153 uncircumcised.

Values that small can easily be chalked down to an anomaly.

Also, nature gave us the foreskin, clearly it does something, else we'd have probably gotten rid of it in our evolutionary path.

Nature also gives us the appendix. And all that does is rupture and kill you.

[Vorthon]

Actually, IIRC, it serves a sort of 'storm shelter' for gut flora.

[misko27]

The thing alot of people don't realize is that evolution is a work in progress. You have a appendix great-order, explain that. There are many human inefficiencies that haven't, and won't, be corrected for some time. You being covered with zits in highschool doesn't help you live much, does it? It still happens.

Anyway, I DO know that circumcision substantially decreases the likelyhood of contracting HIV. I've also heard it decreases enjoyment of sex though.

NINJAEDIT: all of my points were argued. Except sex being less enjoyable supposedly.

[kaijyuu]

The studies in question were conducted in places where free condoms are handed out.

The importance of bringing up condoms is whether they make the benefits of circumcision irrelevant or not. For to you have a point here, you'll have to prove reduction of STD transmissions through condoms.

Doctors disagree over whether or not reduced sensation is even possible

I'm living proof it is.

though condoms are excellent at preventing transmission, they are not perfect, and do fail.

Very rarely when used correctly.

I'd take a circumsision for even a tenth of a percent reduced chance of receiving a uniformly fatal disease.

Can we agree though that it should be YOUR choice, not your parent's, though?


In my perfect world circumcision should be as illegal is any other form of mutilation, except in cases where it's necessary (immediate health risks, and the like) and when the person in question is old enough to be competent to ask for it themselves.

[Lord Shonus]

The problem with that is that it's several orders of magnitude more dangerous to circumsise an adult than an infant. I'm not going to pretend you don't have a point, but  I don't think it's something that can (or should) be legislated. That's even ignoring the fact that such a law would be as offensive to Jews as force-feeding them pork.

[kaijyuu]

I'm as sympathetic to their religious concerns as I'm sympathetic to those who want to do animal sacrifice. IE, not.

[Loud Whispers]

The studies in question were conducted in places where free condoms are handed out.

And studies can be flawed. We require more data. MORE!

Doctors disagree over whether or not reduced sensation is even possible

When you cut off nerves you are cutting off nerves. This... Isn't rocket science ;/

though condoms are excellent at preventing transmission, they are not perfect, and do fail.

They are 100% effective when used correctly. People have a tendency to be stupid and/or malicious.

I'd take a circumsision for even a tenth of a percent reduced chance of receiving a uniformly fatal disease.

Fun fact, eunuchs have a 100% reduced chance of receiving a scary disease that is very treatable. So, very, treatable.

And Evolution Does Not Work That Way. Body hair hasn't provided any benefit (and was detrimental for centuries due to increased housing of parasites) since before recorded history.

Body hair = homeostasis

[misko27]

I'm as sympathetic to their religious concerns as I'm sympathetic to those who want to do animal sacrifice. IE, not.

Can we compromise and sacrifice animal foreskins?

[kaijyuu]

I'm as sympathetic to their religious concerns as I'm sympathetic to those who want to do animal sacrifice. IE, not.

Can we compromise and sacrifice animal foreskins?

Eeewwwww