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[Hanslanda]

Because WoW is like digital crack, but apparently less enjoyable.

... I think WoW would be more enjoyable than crack. Crack usage has gone down because even crackheads don't want to look like that.

[JoshuaFH]

It's time for me to do the same old song and dance everyone, stand back while I shove this half gallon of ice cream into my mouth and cry myself into a corner. Watch out for my Isaac-esque projectile tears.

Part of the reason I'm scared of trying to flirt to get to know girls is that I'm afraid of failure, but more than that I'm scared of success too. Alot of time I feel really pathetic, I don't want to make the mishap of meeting a girl I might actually like, and then she just finds I'm a jobless nobody living with his crippled Mom in an increasingly destitute trailer park, and that I've never had a GF before, and combats these imaginary depression demons on a daily basis. "Good job Josh, you did fantastic at embarrassing yourself." is how my inner monologue paints the scenario, and then my esteem takes a hit and everything just gets harder. It feels like a no-win scenario, personally assured destruction for myself.

Maybe it's just a mainstay of my old gaming mindset, where I just naturally only pursue challenges when I'm properly prepared to triumph over them, and being in such a disadvantaged position, it's hard to convince myself to take this kind of emotional risk. I'm sure someone will chime in to say that that's a diseased way of thinking.

I've touched on this before, at how how my entire mental landscape is built out of feelings of loneliness, and how everything rests on a foundation of solitary thinking that it's just me and I handle things by myself, and that noone's ever been able to intrude on it before, and changing that is fucking earth shaking and completely inconceivable.

I'm not as sad as I usually am when I type these, I just wanted to try to put my same thoughts into different words, to perhaps maybe better verbalize what I'm trying to say.

[kaijyuu]

It's time for me to do the same old song and dance everyone, stand back while I shove this half gallon of ice cream into my mouth and cry myself into a corner. Watch out for my Isaac-esque projectile tears.

Okay, first off, about this.

I know what you're doing here. It's a very old gambit: pointing out something bad so as to excuse it. You're afraid someone else will think you pathetic (but would be too courteous to say it, right?), so you say it first. It's less embarrassing and shameful that way, right?

Well here's the kicker. Only one person thinks you pathetic: you. No one will call you pathetic. No one will think it, either. There is no sugarcoating, or lying to you, in a futile attempt to make you feel better. No one will think you're whining, because you're not. No one will think you're seeking unwarranted attention, because you're not.

Are you ashamed of your depression? Do you think it worthy of mockery, or disappointment, or ire? If you do, you're wrong. You have no reason to hide. You have no reason to be ashamed. You have no reason to make light of your situation to try and make it look more "acceptable."

Tell us exactly what you think, without the facetious self deprecation, and don't be ashamed of what you say.


As for the dating stuff, here's one thing that took me a while to figure out: If someone loves you, they love you for you, warts and all. They don't love you for your money, or what material possessions you have, or any of the common measures of "success" in life. They will love your positive qualities, accept your negative ones, and work with you to move forward. You have no reason to fear success, because if you succeed, truly succeed, you'll have someone by your side who knows you to your core (including those things you're so ashamed of), and wants to be with you regardless.





My further sad:
My move has been delayed a full month due to my apartment's current tenant staying a bit longer. More time to find a job I suppose, but damn I want to get out of here. Also wrecks some of the early plans I made, but those are still flexible. Still really really sucks.

And today I've been an emotional wreck. Swapping between really happy and really sad at a moment's notice. I've been blowing everything out of proportion and jumping to conclusions, all negative. I was going to try and have another big talk with my parents, but I dunno if I can handle it. I might burst into tears or anger at something small and ridiculous. Ugh.

[Reudh]

Had a weird mildly depressive moment.

NO, DEPRESSION, FUCK OFF. I'VE ONLY BEEN FREE OF YOU A YEAR NOW.

[Korbac]

I hope some way will develop in the future so that you guys can box all your sad and send it to me. I wouldn't even charge. Life for me has been relatively pooey of late, but when I hear other people having craptastic times, I feel guilty and obliged to help... except I can't, usually.

Josh : You miss all the shots you don't take. (Says someone in the exact same position esteem wise.)
*WARNING : REALLY BAD ANALOGY*
You know insurance salesmen? They go knocking from door to door on streets. They knock. No answer. They knock. The door is opened, and immediately closes. They knock. The door opens, the person explains pleasantries, but basically says no. But eventually they knock, they get a sale, and they feel GREAT. You shouldn't expect these things to take off on the first try, but at least put in that first try for us, will ya?

Kai : Bad luck on the apartment is all that happened there, really. Still hoping everything turns out okay with your parents.

Reudh : As long as you don't feed it, it should be fine 

[Reudh]

I know. It's weird, because I'm happier than I've ever been. I suppose it has to do with my eternal struggle to find a job (Apparently, according to a friend of mine, a completely unverified statistic of ~70% of people my age are unable to find a job.). I'd rather not be stuck in this blasted suburb, which although nice aesthetically and visually, our municipality has the highest 13-29yo suicide rates in Victoria.

Too many friends have come close to doing it over the years. I myself made a decision not to years ago. It's hard when since highschool finished, three of your highschool acquaintances commit suicide.

If I can't get a job, and can't claim allowances from the government, then I'll not be able to get out of this blasted suburb for another few years. I would love to spread my wings so to speak, but Australia's crippled retail sector and cheap migrant labor makes it EXTRAORDINARILY hard to find a job. Bleghugh.

[JoshuaFH]

It's time for me to do the same old song and dance everyone, stand back while I shove this half gallon of ice cream into my mouth and cry myself into a corner. Watch out for my Isaac-esque projectile tears.

Okay, first off, about this.

I know what you're doing here. It's a very old gambit: pointing out something bad so as to excuse it. You're afraid someone else will think you pathetic (but would be too courteous to say it, right?), so you say it first. It's less embarrassing and shameful that way, right?

Well here's the kicker. Only one person thinks you pathetic: you. No one will call you pathetic. No one will think it, either. There is no sugarcoating, or lying to you, in a futile attempt to make you feel better. No one will think you're whining, because you're not. No one will think you're seeking unwarranted attention, because you're not.

Are you ashamed of your depression? Do you think it worthy of mockery, or disappointment, or ire? If you do, you're wrong. You have no reason to hide. You have no reason to be ashamed. You have no reason to make light of your situation to try and make it look more "acceptable."

Tell us exactly what you think, without the facetious self deprecation, and don't be ashamed of what you say.


As for the dating stuff, here's one thing that took me a while to figure out: If someone loves you, they love you for you, warts and all. They don't love you for your money, or what material possessions you have, or any of the common measures of "success" in life. They will love your positive qualities, accept your negative ones, and work with you to move forward. You have no reason to fear success, because if you succeed, truly succeed, you'll have someone by your side who knows you to your core (including those things you're so ashamed of), and wants to be with you regardless.

You have a point with your first assertion. I just want to subconsciously defend myself from scorn, and that's reasonable, isn't it? I know I would be getting irritated at all my shit by now, so I just presume that the same goes for everyone else as well. Nobody likes whining, moping people afterall.

But for the dating stuff: that does seem overly positive. Overly overly positive. Overly overly overly positive. Excessively, even. Excuse me if I find it to be entirely delusional.

I don't know, just from my observation, the kind of selfless love you describe is something that only happens very rarely, and even then only between those people who are themselves very well adjusted and emotionally conditioned/tempered to be able to exist in this state, and even then only in a kind of stable political and financial climate that it's not unceremoniously cut short or prevented entirely.

For those people like myself, existing in my kind of society which is notoriously materialistic, self-serving, quick to judge harshly, completely degenerate in any path to enlightenment, and valuing shallow promiscuity and sexual conquest, I just don't know how to make a start. It's reasonable, it's rational to assume that any person is simply looking out for their own best interest, and what do I have to offer any woman? My half-decent good looks, when any even average looking woman has a cadre of very good looking men trying to get to know her? My naive sense of humor that's hit and miss near to everyone? What do I have that someone else in the vicious, the treacherous, the thorny and forbidding world of romance and dating can't provide to them better? The kind of selfless love you describe, it doesn't come from nowhere, it's something that's so tightly controlled by circumstance that I can't imagine someone in such a sad and pathetic position like myself ever stumbling over it by serendipity, it's just not possible.

I feel as though I am but a foreign animal gasping for air in an environment it wasn't meant to exist in. The selfless love you described, I don't know if I'll ever feel that kind of acceptance, that kind of affection in my lifetime, but maybe if material circumstances line up correctly I can have atleast a shallow, selfish love where we would be merely using eachother to avoid loneliness and the harshness of a solitary life.

You're a very good person Kaijyuu, but I don't know if your wisdom mirrors reality. I sincerely hope I can be proven wrong.

[kaijyuu]

I just want to subconsciously defend myself from scorn, and that's reasonable, isn't it?

Your "defense" is what's harming you, though.

I know I would be getting irritated at all my shit by now, so I just presume that the same goes for everyone else as well. Nobody likes whining, moping people afterall.

You would get irritated? Really? I'm not so sure of that. Let's say you meet someone in a similar situation as you. If they opened up to you, certainly you of all people could empathize with them most of all?

People don't like "whining" because "whining" implies getting angry/sad over trivial things. Depression is not a trivial thing. While trivial things might set you off for a depressive spell, the root of your sadness is quite serious. You are not whining. Not at all

But for the dating stuff: that does seem overly positive. Overly overly positive. Overly overly overly positive. Excessively, even. Excuse me if I find it to be entirely delusional.

Haha, I can see how you'd think that. Admittedly I did only point out the good parts. No relationship is perfect; spats and disagreements are inevitable. But in a good relationship you'll be able to move past them and both of you will come out as better people.

Fact of the matter is, someone will like you despite your faults. Maybe even because some of them, if they disagree about it being a "fault." Your faults will probably cause issues, that's true, but they'll be there to help you past them so you're not fixing your problems alone. And you'll be there to help them, too; there are few bigger self esteem boosters than knowing you helped someone in a significant way.

You won't find a perfect angel with infinite patience and understanding, but you might find one with enough, and that along with their affection is what's important.



As for what you can offer? I dunno. There are some common patterns on what people find attractive; stuff like "opposites attract" and whatnot. But really all I know for certain is that it isn't up to you to decide what others like about you. You can make guesses; you can improve what you think are your positive attributes and fix those which you think are problems, but ultimately it's up to the other person to decide what they like and whether you fit it.

Point I'm trying to make is you probably won't understand why anyone would like you that way. This is pretty standard; ask any random person in a successful relationship why their partner chose them, and unless they're a narcissist, there's a good chance you'll get a response along the lines of "I dunno. I just got lucky I guess." My brother insists that his wife "settled" for him, much to her scoffing.

[Descan]

Just look at me and Daryll.

I have no fucking idea how I got this guy. Especially after being friends with him for years and getting shot down. Don't talk to him for a year, meet up again, "I'd love to have a relationship with you!" is what I get when I bring it up half-heartedly, expecting another let down.

I... don't know what to take away from this experience. *shrug*

[kaijyuu]

"I'd love to have a relationship with you!" is what I get when I bring it up half-heartedly, expecting another let down.

Was his response a smootch? I hope it was.

[Descan]

His parting gift that first day was a smooch.

His answer was "Yes" when we talked about it in person. :3

[penguinofhonor]

Just look at me and Daryll.

I have no fucking idea how I got this guy. Especially after being friends with him for years and getting shot down. Don't talk to him for a year, meet up again, "I'd love to have a relationship with you!" is what I get when I bring it up half-heartedly, expecting another let down.

I... don't know what to take away from this experience. *shrug*

Relationships are random and are generally unaffected by past actions?

[kaijyuu]

His parting gift that first day was a smooch.

His answer was "Yes" when we talked about it in person. :3

Aww that's still good :3

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Because WoW is like digital crack, but apparently less enjoyable.

WoW is not like digital crack, it is digital crack. I vaguely remember reading that WoW and drugs basically stimulate the same areas of the brain.

But for the dating stuff: that does seem overly positive. Overly overly positive. Overly overly overly positive. Excessively, even. Excuse me if I find it to be entirely delusional.

The difference between delusional optimism and reality is the amount of effort you are willing to invest. Part of depression is a decrease in the total investment of effort.

I don't know, just from my observation, the kind of selfless love you describe is something that only happens very rarely, and even then only between those people who are themselves very well adjusted and emotionally conditioned/tempered to be able to exist in this state, and even then only in a kind of stable political and financial climate that it's not unceremoniously cut short or prevented entirely.

You've got it backwards. Only selfless relationships of any stripes are capable of surviving hardship without imploding. Adjustment is a bullshit. No one is undamaged by life. Those that do are not actually "adjusted", they're merely able to project themselves as being such. "The reason everyone else's life seems so great compared to yours is because you see their director's cut and your blooper reel", to quote a certain someone.

For those people like myself, existing in my kind of society which is notoriously materialistic, self-serving, quick to judge harshly, completely degenerate in any path to enlightenment, and valuing shallow promiscuity and sexual conquest, I just don't know how to make a start.

Then screw our society. You don't have to live like you see the worst of us living to find satisfaction.

It's reasonable, it's rational to assume that any person is simply looking out for their own best interest, and what do I have to offer any woman? My half-decent good looks, when any even average looking woman has a cadre of very good looking men trying to get to know her? My naive sense of humor that's hit and miss near to everyone?

You are looking at this from a skewed angle. This quantified assessment of relationships is something PUA's will tell you is real, and they're not at all a trustworthy source.

Forget about "offering" yourself and "receiving" someone else. Romance is not capitalism. As long as all parties are satisfied it does not matter what you "get" and "give".

And seriously? Get over yourself. Women are not some race of cruel gods who have a harem of men to grace with their grudgingly-given presence. Lots of them have the exact same problems you do.

What do I have that someone else in the vicious, the treacherous, the thorny and forbidding world of romance and dating can't provide to them better? The kind of selfless love you describe, it doesn't come from nowhere, it's something that's so tightly controlled by circumstance that I can't imagine someone in such a sad and pathetic position like myself ever stumbling over it by serendipity, it's just not possible.

Yeah, no wonder you aren't going anywhere. The way you portray yourself I wouldn't want anything to do with you either. For fucks sake Joshua, listen to yourself! This is not how you're going to get anyone to be attracted to you, romantically or otherwise! The only thing you're rating with your self hatred is pity, and that is a transient emotion.

I feel as though I am but a foreign animal gasping for air in an environment it wasn't meant to exist in. The selfless love you described, I don't know if I'll ever feel that kind of acceptance, that kind of affection in my lifetime, but maybe if material circumstances line up correctly I can have atleast a shallow, selfish love where we would be merely using eachother to avoid loneliness and the harshness of a solitary life.

If you want to be loved so badly then quit complaining about it and do something. Forget settling for anything, forget the goddamn consequences, and forget what your fucked-up mental reward system is trying to tell you to do with your life. The enemy is inside your head and you are waving a white flag.

[GlyphGryph]

But for the dating stuff: that does seem overly positive. Overly overly positive. Overly overly overly positive. Excessively, even. Excuse me if I find it to be entirely delusional.

Nope. That's actually pretty common. This is why the trope of "why are you going out with that person, they are no good for you!" is so common, even when the person clearly doesn't care.

I don't know, just from my observation, the kind of selfless love you describe is something that only happens very rarely, and even then only between those people who are themselves very well adjusted and emotionally conditioned/tempered to be able to exist in this state, and even then only in a kind of stable political and financial climate that it's not unceremoniously cut short or prevented entirely.

Nope, nope, and nope. I'd describe the love me and my wife have to be of that type, a love based solely on accepting the person for who they are, and neither of us are emotionally well adjusted, nothing has been particularly stable about our lives until this past year, and we keep getting to ride the "ohgodwereoutofmoneyagain" rollecoaster. Being homeless, living two states apart, struggling to pay the rent for your shitty apartment that has no heat in the middle of winter because oil is expensive - none of those are barriers to a decent relationship in the slightest.

It's reasonable, it's rational to assume that any person is simply looking out for their own best interest, and what do I have to offer any woman?

That's not really for you to decide, is it? You could offer them the things that are most important - Affection. Acceptance. Making them feel like they are special to you. A good rapport doesn't hurt. People don't really need a whole more than that. People will go through absolutely TERRIBLE fucking shit to get that stuff. It's actually pretty amazing it's so very hard to find.


In other news...

If I can't get a job, and can't claim allowances from the government, then I'll not be able to get out of this blasted suburb for another few years. I would love to spread my wings so to speak, but Australia's crippled retail sector and cheap migrant labor makes it EXTRAORDINARILY hard to find a job. Bleghugh.

Above cheap migrant-style labour, are we? If the migrants can find jobs, I imagine you could as well if you wanted! At the very least, you could head over to New Zealand and do cheap migrant labour for the summer. ^_^