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[Duke 2.0]

 I know this is a huge generalization, but I think if you use the term "Open minded" knowledge isn't your primary motivation. It isn't about being open minded to information and knowledge and ideas at all.

[Bauglir]

To be fair, if the placebo effect fixes the problem, then the placebo effect was an appropriate treatment. That's an important if, and there are obviously situations where it's not applicable ("Oh, your appendix exploded? Yeah, you should probably get some surgery for that."). So don't get me wrong on that. But if acupuncture works, then it works. It just works via the placebo effect, rather than whatever rationale tradition ascribes to it.

[TheBronzePickle]

There's a reason I put the term "open-minded" in quotes. Truly and completely open-minded people believe whatever they hear, if going by strictest definition. An open-minded person as the term is generally used is someone who is willing to consider all arguments without bias.

[alway]

Yeah, it turns out acupuncture actually doesn't work at all. Poking anyone with needles and telling them it's acupuncture actually has the same effect, no matter how it is applied. It doesn't even need to be needles; merely pressing toothpicks against the skin with the person thinking they are needles being used to give them acupuncture has the same effect as puncturing the skin with needles.

Which isn't to say it doesn't produce results. It actually does for some people, but it's due to their own body's physical response to their expectations of its success rather than anything about the actual process. It's actually pretty interesting.

Given the option I'd go for the toothpicks though, thanks.

Exactly. In general, the more complicated the ritual, the stronger the placebo tends to be; having needles poked into you all over the body will have a much stronger effect than a sugar pill or similar placebos. That said, the aforementioned toothpicks will produce the same placebo effects without the risks associated with poking needles into your body.

[Vertigon]

Ugh, today was too long. And tomorrow's gonna be worse. Schedule seems to be:

Get to class (Bio). Teacher puts up a powerpoint and talks for 90 minutes straight. I listen for 0 minutes; who could be expected to? Least stimulating class ever.

Next class (Lit). I love this class.

Next class (French). I love my teacher and the material, and I'm good at it, but good god the people in this class are dumb as bricks. They are the stereotypical "stupid Americans".

Next class (Band). This one's not that bad, but rather boring because for most of the class I have nothing to do, and there's lots of repetition.

Then two hours of band practice. Band practice sucks for pit. We've had all our music memorized from week 1 and had nothing to do since then.

I was gonna have piano practice but definitely did not feel up to it today, so that'll be Thursday. Tomorrow, however, I won't get home until around 10:30-11:00. Oh boy.

[ChairmanPoo]

Yeah, it turns out acupuncture actually doesn't work at all. Poking anyone with needles and telling them it's acupuncture actually has the same effect, no matter how it is applied. It doesn't even need to be needles; merely pressing toothpicks against the skin with the person thinking they are needles being used to give them acupuncture has the same effect as puncturing the skin with needles.

Which isn't to say it doesn't produce results. It actually does for some people, but it's due to their own body's physical response to their expectations of its success rather than anything about the actual process.

Or because of... anything, really. The placebo effect is the answer you get which isn't attributable to medication.

For instance, there is a subtype of skin cancer (I think it's a subtype of spinocelular carcinoma, but I'm not too sure atm) that due to a genetic mechanism, involves on it's own. Let's say you, without knowing this, dumped patients with this along with patients with the regular, non-involving type (IIRC the differences are noticeable enough to tell, but hey, at some point someone must have classified them as different and separated them from the others). It would give the appaeance that the placebo is curing some of those cases, whereas in truth they would have disappeared on their own

[Vector]

17 hours.

Time to sleep.  I have to get up early tomorrow morning and math.  After that, studying for midterm.  And all those other horrible things.

*sigh*

I kind of hate my life right now.

[Bauglir]

I'd offer to stab it for you, but you don't seem like the sort of person who views stabbing as an acceptable problem-solving method. Or the sort who appreciates "helpful" knives hurled your way, either. I guess that might be relevant, too. A little. Also, the only thing I have experience stabbing is a preserved rabbit once because the scalpel slipped.

This has swiftly become the worst offer.

[Vattic]

Even failing a direct explanation for acupuncture, the placebo effect is a powerful thing, and I don't see a problem with it if it gets the job done. Well, that's a bit of an oversimplification, but it's close enough.

There are a few problems. One is that proscribing unproven or even disproved treatments could be considered unethical. The argument in the UK in favour of these treatments is that it's a way to bypass the ethical problems of proscribing placebos without the patient knowing but seems to me like an ethical issue in itself.

The other problem is the cost. They are often quite expensive and it could easily be seen as a misallocation of funds for the national health service to pay for these treatments. This is especially the case given recent studies that show that placebos even work if the patient knows they are just sugar pills. Apparently more sugar pills per day work better than less to an extent and going in for a weekly injection of saline works even better still (more complex ritual maybe).

I realise this is less of an issue if people seek it out privately but then only those that can afford it can get what benefits it does offer. Or those who feel the need to carry on with it even though they can't really afford it.

This topic is a sore one for me as I've mentioned. It's something I've been surrounded by my whole life.

I know this is a huge generalization, but I think if you use the term "Open minded" knowledge isn't your primary motivation. It isn't about being open minded to information and knowledge and ideas at all.

I really dislike the term. Being told to "open your mind" for asking questions about the wrong things as a child has put a bad taste in my mouth. The worse thing is that when I first started asking awkward questions I was a believer and simply interested in the finer points.

I should stop with this. If I get worked up over it I end up rolling the arguments and memories around in my head and causing myself more harm than good.

[Vester]

My umbrella broke!

Stupid hurricane winds.

EDIT: Apparently we're right in the middle of it.

[Johuotar]

Not enough sleep and no time between classes to eat lunch...

[Aqizzar]

EDIT: Apparently we're right in the middle of it.

Wow, that really makes the Philippines look like they were made to get their asses kicked by hurricanes.  It's just dead on there.

[Vester]

EDIT: Apparently we're right in the middle of it.

Wow, that really makes the Philippines look like they were made to get their asses kicked by hurricanes.  It's just dead on there.

And it's the third major hurricane this year. 

I just wish we could kill hurricanes somehow.

[micelus]

Hurricanes and tropical storms are kinda common in the country. When I was still living there, a hurricane made me cry. Course I was a kid and I soon found out it was kind of weak for a hurricane, but still.

That counts as sad right? Not today, or yesterday but it was still a sad moment.

[Vester]

When did you move out? Two years ago this big typhoon flooded Provident Village in Marikina and according to my friends there were corpses just bobbing along.

The rest of the North didn't fare so well either. That one was bad.