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Author Topic: Things that made you sad today thread.  (Read 9772818 times)

Nadaka

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33690 on: July 29, 2011, 04:44:40 pm »

*sigh*

I hate putting on my moderator hat.

That's alright Vector everything is improved because of it.

Spoiler: IMAGINATION (click to show/hide)

this silliness is off topic! You are supposed to be mopey around here. ;)

I normally don't get caught up in the debate but why do certain (not all) atheists call themselves free thinkers when they really only believe that one thing is true in terms of religion (that there is lack of a god) as opposed to some other thing? Or is that about not following silly religious structure and "laws" which makes them more free thinking? Being part of neither party, I must know the answer to this. No offense meant to atheists or religious peoples.

Atheist beliefs are as complex and different as Theists beliefs, perhaps more so because we don't have a structure or authority to guide us. A lot of us are "free thinkers" because we chose this belief over the ones that we were raised with, rather than just accepting what we once believed without consideration of other options. But really, there are no hard and fast rules that apply to your question.
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Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back...
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freeformschooler

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33691 on: July 29, 2011, 04:58:39 pm »

*sigh*

I hate putting on my moderator hat.

That's alright Vector everything is improved because of it.

Spoiler: IMAGINATION (click to show/hide)

this silliness is off topic! You are supposed to be mopey around here. ;)

I normally don't get caught up in the debate but why do certain (not all) atheists call themselves free thinkers when they really only believe that one thing is true in terms of religion (that there is lack of a god) as opposed to some other thing? Or is that about not following silly religious structure and "laws" which makes them more free thinking? Being part of neither party, I must know the answer to this. No offense meant to atheists or religious peoples.

Atheist beliefs are as complex and different as Theists beliefs, perhaps more so because we don't have a structure or authority to guide us. A lot of us are "free thinkers" because we chose this belief over the ones that we were raised with, rather than just accepting what we once believed without consideration of other options. But really, there are no hard and fast rules that apply to your question.

I'm sorry Nadaka, I am incapable of being mopey or angry most of the time! IT HAD TO BE POSTED.

Anyway, your explanation is perfect. Thank you for that, I really needed to hear that. By that definition my whole family are free thinkers because we ended up avoiding the beliefs we grew up with in our own ways.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 05:07:24 pm by freeformschooler »
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Duke 2.0

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33692 on: July 29, 2011, 05:06:18 pm »

 I dunno, the whole Free Thinker title seems either made to spite somebody they know or made out of pretentiousness. Atheists that think about coexisting with other beliefs don't seem to use that term too often. There is some wriggle room with the definition of free, but there needs to be a way to separate people who just think differently from what they were raised with and people who resent the people they were raised with and categorize them as wrong. Both groups are pretty prevalent and they use the same term to define themselves.
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Nadaka

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33693 on: July 29, 2011, 05:25:50 pm »

I believe a free thinker is someone who accepts that they can be wrong and is open to changing their opinion when presented when presented with a good argument or evidence. Having changed ones opinion isn't the only thing that is required. I think it is more about being open. It is pretty similar to the old school definition of liberal before it was ascribed to a specific set of political beliefs. I can't think of a better way to put it at the moment.

on topic: I should have left work an hour ago, this is made worse because there isn't a reason for me to stay.
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Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back...
I don't care cause I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

I turned myself into a monster, to fight against the monsters of the world.

freeformschooler

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33694 on: July 29, 2011, 05:29:54 pm »

I believe a free thinker is someone who accepts that they can be wrong and is open to changing their opinion when presented when presented with a good argument or evidence. Having changed ones opinion isn't the only thing that is required. I think it is more about being open. It is pretty similar to the old school definition of liberal before it was ascribed to a specific set of political beliefs. I can't think of a better way to put it at the moment.

I also thought that was what it meant but I was confused by the people who were saying or implying "free-thinking as opposed to Christians" or "as opposed to religious people" or "I'm no longer religious, I'm a free thinker". Is that just bad logic or am I missing something?
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Grimshot

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33695 on: July 29, 2011, 05:44:32 pm »

 I tried joking around with my Mother and Brother today. I must suck at jokes because I had to follow up both of the times I tried with "That was a joke.". Though I have to admit that its funny in retrospect.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33696 on: July 29, 2011, 05:51:58 pm »

Not really. What you need to realize is that there's three main groups of atheists. One group merely finds that, for whatever reason, they cannot believe in a deity. This sort is usually fairly civil, and rarely uses the "free thinker" label in the way you were describing. The second main group is those that have turned science into a religion, deeming it to have "disproved" the possibility of a deity and thus making all regions invalid (note: atheistic religious philosophies generally fall into the first group, but sometimes fit here as well.) This group often uses the "free thinker" label to denote themselves superior,  because "of course" nobody with half a brain cell would call them wrong. By far, however, the derogatory use of the "free thinker" (in the sense that they use it to make themselves seem superior) comes from the third group. This group, best characterised by Family Guy's Brian (and Seth McFarlane himself, for that matter), uses atheism the way a lot of people use conspiracy theories. They try very hard to present that the mere fact that they have discarded religion automatically makes the worst of them morally, intellectually, and philosophically better in every way than the best religious person ever. (I've even seen those that insist Hitler was a better man than John Paul II becuause "at least Hitler didn't rely on a magic man in the sky to tell him what to do." 
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Nadaka

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33697 on: July 29, 2011, 05:52:55 pm »

I believe a free thinker is someone who accepts that they can be wrong and is open to changing their opinion when presented when presented with a good argument or evidence. Having changed ones opinion isn't the only thing that is required. I think it is more about being open. It is pretty similar to the old school definition of liberal before it was ascribed to a specific set of political beliefs. I can't think of a better way to put it at the moment.

I also thought that was what it meant but I was confused by the people who were saying or implying "free-thinking as opposed to Christians" or "as opposed to religious people" or "I'm no longer religious, I'm a free thinker". Is that just bad logic or am I missing something?

In context? It probably means the individual you are talking to is a prick. Or they could just be to lazy to connect the two distinct statements with their reasoning. And while that doesn't preclude bad logic, or being a prick, it could be that you are missing something through no fault of your own.
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Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back...
I don't care cause I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

I turned myself into a monster, to fight against the monsters of the world.

Leafsnail

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33698 on: July 29, 2011, 06:06:48 pm »

Not really. What you need to realize is that there's three main groups of atheists. One group merely finds that, for whatever reason, they cannot believe in a deity. This sort is usually fairly civil, and rarely uses the "free thinker" label in the way you were describing.
You seem to have missed the group that decides not to believe in a deity even if they have or could.  As it is you're classifying atheism as either a mental disorder or pricks being pricks.
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Euld

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33699 on: July 29, 2011, 06:35:42 pm »

He probably meant "cannot" in a more "will not" or "don't want to" sense.  Myself and many people I know often use "cannot" when we actually mean "will not."  So nitpicky, mr. Leafsnail :P

Lord Shonus

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33700 on: July 29, 2011, 06:47:42 pm »

Yes, that's what I meant. The idea that I was defining it as a "mental disorder" is absurd.
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Lysabild

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33701 on: July 29, 2011, 07:24:10 pm »

You're still making a mistake, I'm not atheist because I can't or won't believe, I'm an atheist because I don't.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33702 on: July 29, 2011, 07:38:04 pm »

"Don't" "Can't" and "Wonn't" MEAN THE SAME FUCkING THING IN THIS FUCKING CONTEXT.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33703 on: July 29, 2011, 07:46:48 pm »

I don't think they do but it's all good now it's clarified.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Things that made you sad today thread.
« Reply #33704 on: July 29, 2011, 07:57:14 pm »

Also, how worth it is it to get angry? And do you honestly think your point will have more of an impact if you are?
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