Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Duke 2.0]

Doesn't terribly depress me. These are companies that do everything else to appeal to their largest demographics, it's not a stretch to see that they only put into female companions what will sell and not investing a penny more. I would be sad if a company that focuses on making games were to do that, but this is asking too much of some companies without working over the whole making games purely for a profit thing. At that point you had best face Dreamworks before ever setting foot on the games industry.

The lack of female presence in games is a shame, but it doesn't depress me since it's been the norm for such a long time now. It's the idea that making games with such a narrow perspective is actually seen by some people as a good thing that depresses me. Does every RPG need to basically be a harem targeted towards men? Don't we have better things to worry about than generally mediocre romantic subplots?

Does some companies making a game for profits hurt the other games made to expand and explore the medium? Granted funding and stuff and limited resources for projects, but these are companies out to make money. I don't really expect them to try and expand the medium. There are some companies that do, and as they are different companies the resources invested in one don't really effect the other.

 I dunno, something about the argument "Don't we have something better to do" bothers me. I mean, let's look at literature. There is a huge amount of soft romantic trashy novels out there, but nobody really complains about them except really anal literature graduates or hardcore feminists(Note I mean the irrational ones that take offense to any instance of a woman not being in power, not the modern feminism movement that works towards equality. I don't want to feel from Vectors good graces over a misunderstanding of terminology). They don't get in the way of reading better literature and there is ultimately no harm in them. So why are games different? Mainstream focus? Perhaps this isn't so much the fault of the companies so much as the consumers.

[SalmonGod]

You can't really expect every game to be Planescape: Torment, either.

I've never played that.  I really should.

[Ochita]

You can't really expect every game to be Planescape: Torment, either.

I've never played that.  I really should.

Its good. I cant really say more.

[fqllve]

I dunno, something about the argument "Don't we have something better to do" bothers me. I mean, let's look at literature. There is a huge amount of soft romantic trashy novels out there, but nobody really complains about them except really anal literature graduates or hardcore feminists(Note I mean the irrational ones that take offense to any instance of a woman not being in power, not the modern feminism movement that works towards equality. I don't want to feel from Vectors good graces over a misunderstanding of terminology). They don't get in the way of reading better literature and there is ultimately no harm in them. So why are games different? Mainstream focus? Perhaps this isn't so much the fault of the companies so much as the consumers.

I wasn't saying that games should stop focusing on making romantic subplots, I just don't see the point in complaining about them ignoring male gamers when "Bioware romance" is a commonly understood insult.

You can't really expect every game to be Planescape: Torment, either.

I've never played that.  I really should.

Oh, you really should. That game has better writing than books I've read.

[Vector]

Ahh, okay okay.

Spoiler: Discussion of portrayal of sexual assault in media (click to show/hide)

The Diablo corpse debate as I know it is that they have all female characters dying face up, legs spread to imply that they had been raped.  Rather, there was some sort of different corpse appearance for women, which looked rather like it was post-violation.

Of course, I only know of this through word of mouth, having heard of it roughly ... 10 years ago.  But that's the shape of it.

I get pissed off at those romantic novels.

Here's why.  You guys know about the man's heroic journey in literature, right?  Well, the woman's heroic journey, as analyzed through myths around the world, goes like this:

Woman comes of age, symbolized somehow.  Either way, she's fertile now.
Problem in the world around her, usually natural--crop issues, whatever.
Pursuing man.
Now, she has a choice.
a. Submit, have sex, and stay alive
b. Refuse the man's sexual advances and she becomes "inert."  She may die, turn into a tree, the crops may fail, whatever.

That's it.  That's the story of a woman, as usually told.  Those trashy romance novels are no different.  And so, yes, I'm tired of it, because it seems like it's absolutely everywhere.

I'm not saying I object to every instance of a woman being out of power.  I'm saying that I object to this particular narrative that seems to keep on proliferating itself.


I, too, wanna play Torment.  Hmm... maybe when I'm at home and have a better ability to access materials.

[Darvi]

There's also c)burn after being accused of being a witch.


Or something. I haven't been paying attention to english classes really.

[Vector]

Yeah, post-Christian dialogues tend to have rather more virgin/whore narratives.  I don't like those that much, either.

[SalmonGod]

Spoiler: Discussion of portrayal of sexual assault in media (click to show/hide)

The Diablo corpse debate as I know it is that they have all female characters dying face up, legs spread to imply that they had been raped.  Rather, there was some sort of different corpse appearance for women, which looked rather like it was post-violation.

Of course, I only know of this through word of mouth, having heard of it roughly ... 10 years ago.  But that's the shape of it.

All I can say is... ugh...

[blackmagechill]

I hate romance novels, and not just because I'm a guy (as a general rule, most of my friends start screaming whore when someone mentions Twilight), or probably in the main age group of hate. Show me a group of romance novels that are written from a male's perspective that AREN'T porn, or completely horribly written, and I'll laugh my ass off and call you a liar.

[ToonyMan]

Ehehehehe, there are some questionable things considering women's role in Umineko which are probably left unsaid.

Spoiler: probably (click to show/hide)

[Vector]

Yes, well, I'm not even getting started on Japan, because Western media is already making me depressed enough >_>

[scriver]

I hate romance novels, and not just because I'm a guy (as a general rule, most of my friends start screaming whore when someone mentions Twilight), or probably in the main age group of hate. Show me a group of romance novels that are written from a male's perspective that AREN'T porn, or completely horribly written, and I'll laugh my ass off and call you a liar.

Aren't most "romance novels" considered porn even when they're aimed at women? That was my impression of what the term meant.

[Darvi]

Only if they involve naked bodies, or something. Dunno, I don't know much about either really.

[Vector]

There's a difference between, say, harlequins/rosewater novels and your usual chick flick.  Both are romantic stories usually aimed at women, but the former tends to be more sexual.

[Duke 2.0]

 I understand not wanting some offensive things to be present in popular media, I have my own taboo I can't even reveal to you guys about that I keep seeing and enraging me. I can't imagine it being as widespread as sexism or what I would do if that did happen. Likely I would be raging as hard as you. But to some extent I acknowledge that there is a broader scop-

 Wait, hold on. I've been picking at the totally wrong parts of the argument as you. Fuck.

 Alright, sexism: Why the hell are we even debating this? Specifically the comment about games not pandering to male gamers. This is so obviously false that any discussion about it should be a mocking joke.

 And in regards to your most recent point: I'm okay with trashy novels because they have their place: A feel-good story with no real content or weight behind it. It's for when you don't want to think about it, just enjoy something without having to put effort into it. I'm perfectly okay with such a genre. However, I do get the frustrations of such a genre spilling out into more popular ones and becoming the hot stories of today. It's a sign that writers are lowering their standards to appeal to more readers, throwing away the things that would make their stories great in favor of simpler things. As well as the point you were getting at, where the sexist undertones are moving with the changing standards.

 And... I'm not really feeling it towards the writers or the readers. The educational system is getting most of the flak in my head, although I'll need to reflect on this a little.