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[Dutchling]

Yeah. What the guy with the monocle said.

[Rolan7]

Edited: Whatever, not worth it.

[i2amroy]

To be honest I personally don't understand why people can't understand basic courtesy. If someone doesn't want to be quoted, you don't quote them. It doesn't matter if it's an effective way to hide information or not. You don't do it. Quit being an asshat.

And I totally agree with the sentiment. It's just that being unable to quote someone (especially if there are multiple conversations going on at once), makes discussions much more difficult to follow. It's comparable to having an in-person meeting around a table and not being able to look at a specific person whenever you say something to or in response to them. If they are the only one who just said something, then it's easy to understand who you are talking to. If there are multiple conversations going on around the table, especially if they are all on similar subjects, things can get very confusing very fast.

Continuing on with the analogy that's about the same place that I would put the request. A request to not look at someone when having an in-person conversation is something that I'd almost certainly do for them, but if things started to get confusing or somebody forgot the request I wouldn't personally fault them much. IMO a request like that lands very close to the boundary of "common courtesy" and "causing more hassle for others than it is worth".

To reiterate, it's something I will do, but it's pushing courtesy enough based on reasons I don't really see valid that I wouldn't exactly fault someone for not complying.

[Truean]

Unless of course I regularly cull my posts when I can via sanitation on a regular schedule as part of the maintenance and upkeep of said account on a board specifically meant to avoid long term recording via look-back machine..... Everybody thinks that because you're a lawyer you have to explain all of existence to them. Christ. Don't ever go to law school. Enormous mistake; enormous bother. Wish I hadn't.

Dude, I know this sucks to hear, but you're 17? Often when people pull that, it's when they're full of crap and have nothing else to offer as an argument. In this case, you've even said it's like saying you should prepare for exams. You know you should but that doesn't mean you're gonna do it.... So you know you should but you might not anyhow? [shrugs]. So the advice is right but meh, because somebody insists it is right? Holy hell, that kinda shit is why I have a fucking ulcer. I'm right but I shouldn't be insistant about being right but if I'm not people will say I didn't tell them when it blows up in their face and blame me?

Dude, go right ahead and join all the other people who have ignored my advice. Doesn't go well usually, but it's your mistake to make. I don't care, just avoid the quoting me and I'm ok. Thanks for not doing it that last time.

Jesus, express an opinion, don't back it up with citations, and you're an unsupported nut. Express an opinion and provide cites and you're being insistent. Damned if I do. Damned if I don't. Maybe I just shouldn't bother.

That wasn't hard.

[Bauglir]

To be honest I personally don't understand why people can't understand basic courtesy. If someone doesn't want to be quoted, you don't quote them. It doesn't matter if it's an effective way to hide information or not. You don't do it. Quit being an asshat.

Dammit, Sirus! How the fuck did you figure out exactly what I was going to say, verbatim? *Unlimited Grumbles*

Anyway, this. Why do we need to analyze this and establish a suitable justification, anyway?

Also, @Vector

Poofy dress and combat boots. The worstbest of both worlds. Would be nice if there were no social insistence that the whole concept have to be defined in terms of two extreme and opposing members, though. Much empathy, much sympathy.

Also also, my mouse is a piece of shit. I spent about 2 minutes trying to highlight a line and delete it before deciding it'd just be easier to hold down backspace. Whether or not the damn thing can detect input has become largely random, so that holding down is interpreted as a series of rapid clicks, single-clicking often fails or is interpreted as a double click, and using the scrollwheel takes me in entirely random directions.

[mastahcheese]

Poofy dress and combat boots. The worstbest of both worlds. Would be nice if there were no social insistence that the whole concept have to be defined in terms of two extreme and opposing members, though. Much empathy, much sympathy.

I find this hilarious because my own grandmother wore combat boots as part of her being in military service, and it never seemed masculine at all to me.
They looked nice on her.

[i2amroy]

Point, and as I said, I try not to (when I remember at least, you all tend to devolve into faceless, ever-changing posters after a while, because personally IMO the argument/discussion you make is way more important than the poster who is making it).

Though something like that is definitely more feasible on a computer than if I were say, posting from a phone (it's taken me a handful of minutes to try to delete parts of quotes on my phone before without breaking everything, yes, I am not the most agile phone user, and yes, the iPhone select and delete little bars suck).

Also also, my mouse is a piece of shit. I spent about 2 minutes trying to highlight a line and delete it before deciding it'd just be easier to hold down backspace. Whether or not the damn thing can detect input has become largely random, so that holding down is interpreted as a series of rapid clicks, single-clicking often fails or is interpreted as a double click, and using the scrollwheel takes me in entirely random directions.

Loose USB cable/port?

[Lord Shonus]

Point, and as I said, I try not to (when I remember at least, you all tend to devolve into faceless, ever-changing posters after a while, because personally IMO the argument/discussion you make is way more important than the poster who is making it).

Though something like that is definitely more feasible on a computer than if I were say, posting from a phone (it's taken me a handful of minutes to try to delete parts of quotes on my phone before without breaking everything, yes, I am not the most agile phone user, and yes, the iPhone select and delete little bars suck).

Also also, my mouse is a piece of shit. I spent about 2 minutes trying to highlight a line and delete it before deciding it'd just be easier to hold down backspace. Whether or not the damn thing can detect input has become largely random, so that holding down is interpreted as a series of rapid clicks, single-clicking often fails or is interpreted as a double click, and using the scrollwheel takes me in entirely random directions.

Loose USB cable/port?

Sounds more like worn out switches.

[Truean]

Seen this one before. For what it's worth I sympathize. It's kind of like being asked what makes a woman a woman, or what makes a man a man, if you're not using genitals or chromosomes. Before anybody reading this takes a swipe at answering this question, it's a dangerous one, sadly. You can make a lot of people mad with answering this one and it's a very hard thing to work with.

It's also confusing as hell, because when you do these definition thingies you end up excluding people and that will make people mad.

I've found people react oddly when they see a MtF dressing in female clothing but wearing pants, even and especially women's pants. Go figure.

It's really difficult for people struggling with difficulty in gender identity. It's hard.

[hops]

Gender is confusing.

It also really drives me up the wall when people immediately identify me as male the moment I say I'm not trans, when my gender is pretty much whatever they're attracted to, and they sure as hell aren't attracted to males.

[mastahcheese]

@Truean: This is why I do my best to take people's genders as what they want to be perceived as, and don't really give a crap about details.
If someone says "I'm female" then I don't care if they were always female or not. In my mind, they are, both physically and mentally, a female. And that's the end of it. What body parts they may or may not have, whatever mindset they may or may not have, doesn't matter compared to how they view themselves.

But that's my mindset.

[hops]

I just personally think gender is useless when it's not used to identify biological difference. (i.e. I'm "male" because I can sexually reproduce with "females")

I just wish we were all born intersex, and can switch our sex at will.

[Bauglir]

I admit - I'm not struggling with gender identity, m'self. That's never been a problem for me. So I might be coming in here from a position of privilege, attempting to reason with an intuition that's never had to deal with the stuff that actually matters to the people having the problem. I do, though, understand the feeling of being silently judged, of two-faced "Oh yeah I totally support you"s to your face and nothing quite so noble the rest of the time, of feeling compelled to define yourself by something that's unusual instead of what you want to care about, of needing to justify yourself to a world that responds with a thundering "Why should we care?". And I understand the more straightforward kinds of abuse, the violence, the insistence that there's something wrong with you and it's all your fault, the unreasoning hate, the world that demands the justification just so it can trample it into the dirt.

I mean, I get all that as well as somebody who's never lived it can, I suppose - which probably isn't very well, at all, really. And if your life hasn't fit into that neat little box of pain I've drawn, I don't mean to exclude you. I just haven't experienced your experience. That doesn't make it any less real, or any less meaningful. You don't need to meet my expectations. Your life doesn't have to fit into anybody's expectations to be a worthwhile life.

Which, of course, is where I'm going with this. I have my own vague notions of what constitutes being a man. I have fewer notions about what constitutes being a woman - it's not how I identify myself, so it's not something I've thought about as much. But I'll be goddamned if my notions constitute a binding reality. What really makes a woman a woman, and this is in the philosophical sense instead of what ideas are conjured by the label, is the self-perception of womanhood. And what really makes a man a man is the same principle (just with, y'know, manhood instead). And neither of those is what makes a person a person, so to hell with notions of even a spectrum onto which you must fall in order to be human, and to hell with mandatory labeling for that matter. Call yourselves what seems right, and I'll do the same within the bounds of my knowledge.

EDIT:
tl;dr
One person's reality doesn't define another's identity. Maybe we should have fewer demands about how other people have to know themselves.

[Truean]

I do my best to take people's genders as what they want to be perceived as, and don't really give a crap about details.
If someone says "I'm female" then I don't care if they were always female or not.

On behalf of transgendered individual everywhere. Thank you.

[Descan]

To be fair though, most atheists are dualists and just reject the Abrahamitic God.

* Descan looks askance at brain uploading proponents. >_>

_{it's not you because it's not your brain and never was connected TO your brain it's just a dumb copy god damn it people why don't you get this it's so fucking obvious bluh just because it has the same mental properties as you doesn't mean it is you because there's no fucking ineffable transient bullshit attached to your mind that means anything that thinks it is you is you i mean how would that even work!?}